Difficulté avec la prononciation de "vin x vent" (et autres mots avec en et in)

[IchBinEinPoly]

That passage quoted about a merger of /ɔ̃/ and /ɛ̃/ occurring really has me puzzled. I have never heard a native speaker pronounce "vin" like "vont," no matter what their dialect.

Are you sure? They'd be pronounced as [ɑ̃] according to this merger.

[Cezar]

Since I'm still confused with these sounds I looked for the words vent and vin and noticed (if I'm listening well haha) that in most recordings "vent" and "vin" are both pronounced like [vã], except in the last recordings of "vent" which sounds like [ɛ̃] (in this case one was pronounced by a canadian, perhaps here we come to the matter of accent).

[tastyonions]

That passage quoted about a merger of /ɔ̃/ and /ɛ̃/ occurring really has me puzzled. I have never heard a native speaker pronounce "vin" like "vont," no matter what their dialect.

Are you sure? They'd be pronounced as [ɑ̃] according to this merger.

Yes, I'm certain. In fact I have never heard "vin" pronounced as [vɑ̃] at all. I'd be curious to know what dialect features this merger. I guess it's possible it's simply one that I haven't listened to much.

I do hear occasional mergers (or perhaps just mixups) between /ɔ̃/ and /ɑ̃/, as in this clip around 0:18: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56zKj63at28

"Est-ce que la défense [sounds like "défonce" to me] de la laïcité..."

[Arnaud]

deleted

[tastyonions]

Cezar, here are six words to help you:



vent (m) = wind
vin (m) = wine
sans = without
sain = healthy
rang (m) = rank / row
rein (m) = kidney

Can you hear the difference between them when they are paired side by side like this?

[Cezar]

Since I'm still confused with these sounds I looked for the words vent and vin and noticed (if I'm listening well haha) that in most recordings "vent" and "vin" are both pronounced like [vã], except in the last recordings of "vent" which sounds like [ɛ̃] (in this case one was pronounced by a canadian, perhaps here we come to the matter of accent).

Sorry to disappoint you, but for me, these recordings are completly different. I hear clearly 2 different sounds.
Even if there are (small) local variations due to the accents, it's almost impossible for a native speaker to mistake these sounds.

So I think I must work on recognizing those differences. Thank you very much

[Cezar]

Cezar, here are six words to help you:



vent (m) = wind
vin (m) = wine
sans = without
sain = healthy
rang (m) = rank / row
rein (m) = kidney

Can you hear the difference between them when they are paired side by side like this?

Wow, it was really helpful! Now it seems clearer the difference!

[tomgosse]

Since I'm still confused with these sounds I looked for the words vent and vin and noticed (if I'm listening well haha) that in most recordings "vent" and "vin" are both pronounced like [vã], except in the last recordings of "vent" which sounds like [ɛ̃] (in this case one was pronounced by a canadian, perhaps here we come to the matter of accent).

Sorry to disappoint you, but for me, these recordings are completly different. I hear clearly 2 different sounds.
Even if there are (small) local variations due to the accents, it's almost impossible for a native speaker to mistake these sounds.

So I think I must work on recognizing those differences. Thank you very much

I am not a native speaker of French and I hear two very distinctive sounds. Learning to recognize and reproduce sounds not found in our native language takes time and effort. It certainly does for me. Especially the latter.

Here is one site that you may be interested in: FSI French Phonology. It has a lot of exercises in recognizing and pronouncing French sounds. You can also download the files from here. This course was developed by the United States Foreign Service Institute and has received good reviews on this forum.

[tomgosse]

Cezar, here are six words to help you:



vent (m) = wind
vin (m) = wine
sans = without
sain = healthy
rang (m) = rank / row
rein (m) = kidney

Can you hear the difference between them when they are paired side by side like this?

Now all I need to do is learn to pronounce /R/ like you do!

[tomgosse]

This post, from mangata, has a link to the site recommended by Arnaud, and another site showing minimal pairs.