General language log

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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
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Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:01 am

Still learning how to use a subtitle editor. I found padding the audio with 250 milliseconds on subs2srs made the audio clips less cut off and weird. At least in the beginning. I’ll check the audio clips I remember being badly out of sync and see if it’s better. I’m also getting an urge to practice Finnish prosody. I’ve been into Finnish music for about eight years, but I’ve never been interested in actually studying it. I’m still not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I am in the future. I just don’t know of much Finnish media besides music I’d be interested in. I find I have a more vivid mental representation of what Finnish sounds like. Even though I’ve listened to far more spoken Hebrew and for the last year Hebrew music. It seems long term exposure to a language, even if it’s just music makes a difference. I also seem to have an easier time with Finnish vocabulary. I haven’t studied Finnish grammar yet, but I’ve heard it’s hard. If I do end up practicing Finnish prosody I won’t get into studying it more. I’m not really worried about it interfering with Hebrew. I’m just not great at managing time at the moment. I struggled with that when I briefly wanted to dabble in Turkish. I dabbled in Turkish because I was possibly traveling to Turkey and I think Turkish sounds cool. But I had no long-term interest in Turkish culture and the vacation changed to another country. With Finnish I do have more interest in the culture, but I’m still not too interested in putting full effort into learning it.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:05 am

I got a new chromebook which can also run android apps. I got ankidroid. The Hebrew from scratch works way better on ankidroid than ankiweb. So I can get back to studying as I’m figuring out subs2srs. I’m also getting the urge to listen to more Kaveret skits. I mostly can’t understand them, but I love their music and I find their voices entertaining enough. They’re also fairly short. As I repeat them I can understand more snippets from the skits.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:44 pm

Today I worked a lot on sorting the Peter Rabbit subtitles by difficulty. I’m not sure splitting long subtitles is worth it since they’ll be cut off funny and just annoy me. I studied some and I felt it went a lot smoother. I’m no longer just memorizing the phrases by rote. I’m learning some vocabulary and getting used to different sentence structures.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:32 am

I’m back to shadowing, but today I did it while I studied Hebrew From Scratch flashcards since they often use a female voice. I do it for the usual reason, but I think I can also get some kinesthetic memory for the words. This also motivated me to study subs2srs cards which can feel fairly tedious or hard on my brain. I guess it’s good to do more nerve-wracking tasks first and then I can move onto more cognitively demanding or tedious tasks.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:15 am

Shadowing went way better. It didn’t make me panic like last time even though I had some difficulty on some words. I didn’t make myself remove one headphone unless I felt I was doing fairly well and couldn’t hear myself. When there’s guttural sounds I struggle so much I can’t even keep time. When words have an L sound I also struggle. I’m not surprised since the Hebrew L sound has always sounded different to me. I was pretty laid back about it since my main goal was to practice vocabulary.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:03 am

I was originally going to post this as a whole thread, but since it became self-indulgent I’ll post it here instead. I still consider myself a beginner at Hebrew, but I seem to be at a distinctly different stage compared to when I just started. Words actually feel like words. When I first started words didn’t feel like words to me, so they took forever to stick. I just couldn’t feel the language at all. Now I can feel it. That could be why I found Finnish words faster to learn. It just has a similar “feeling” to other Scandinavian languages even though it’s not Indo-European.

I notice I can recognize a lot of words when I hear Hebrew spoken, but I still lack a lot of the vocabulary necessary to actually understand. Listening to Hebrew can get pretty tiring, as opposed before when I didn’t know enough words to make that effort. I also notice a lag between recognizing a word and understanding the word. I may or may not mentally translate words depending on how complex the sentence is. If it’s simple and I’ve seen it used in a lot of contexts I probably won’t mentally translate. If it’s an unfamiliar sentence structure or a new word I will mentally translate.

I think my Icelandic was at a similar stage. It was very exhausting to listen to and I could read kid books and watch kid shows if I really concentrated. At that point I quit because of a lack of resources. I also tried to understand a lot of things way above my level. I don’t really challenge myself like that in Hebrew and I sometimes get surprised at how much I manage to understand. I don’t know if I should. I feel like my Hebrew is still at a slightly lower level than my Icelandic was at its peak.

Maybe it was at the same level since I seem to be hitting the same milestones. I haven’t really listened to all that much Icelandic lately. When I have I noticed I could still pick up on some snippets. Maybe I was at the same level. It’s easy to overestimate how much you understand a Germanic level. When I tried to guess a Norwegian duolingo phrase I was totally off. With Hebrew I just end up feeling clueless.

When I was learning Icelandic I liked learning it from song lyrics. So I often understood the music I listened to pretty well. But it made music tiring to listen to. I still get mentally tired listening to Icelandic music. So now I avoided this approach with Hebrew. So as a result I don’t understand Hebrew music as much. So music isn’t really a reliable landmark. It makes music less exhausting to listen to, but it still seems to strain my brain a bit.
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sporedandroid
Yellow Belt
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:54 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (heritage/intermediate), Hebrew (pre-A1), Turkish (pre-A1, aiming for around A1)
x 53

Re: General language log

Postby sporedandroid » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:34 am

I’m not sure shadowing through anki is as effective as the more focused Olle Kjellin method. I keep hearing my own voice and being unsatisfied. I’ll still continue to kinesthetically learn some vocabulary words even though I’m not really . I do notice some clips are easier than others. Usually the closer to my age she sounds, the easier it is. If it’s an old lady or it sounds too robotic or like an announcement I find it nearly impossible to harmonize with. Slow, natural sounding speech with someone roughly my age is the easiest. That works out well since that’s what I’m aiming for.

I’ll take note of those and make a compilation of them in audacity. Unfortunately for me there’s still a huge gap between harmonizing with the voice and sounding how I want. I’m not surprised because I often don’t feel like I’m really changing the way I talk when I’m able to harmonize with the voice. When I do the Olle Kjellin method for long enough I do notice talking starts to feel different.

When I first tried the Olle Kjellin method I had no idea what clips would be good for me. Now I have a better idea. When I first started I couldn’t get sync up at all. Now I’m pretty quick to sync up. I still don’t know if that’s because I chose easier clips or if I made actual progress. I just have a hard time getting over the idea of being caught doing it. I’m still figuring out if doing the Olle Kjellin method alone will automatically make me improve. I think I’ll also try some of the mimicmethod as well where they slow down the intonation and copy it afterwards. It’s just too anxiety inducing right now. I’m taking steps to reduce my anxiety in general. It really gets in the way of everything, not just language learning. I’m finding it really hard to strike a balance.

Thankfully speaking Hebrew isn’t a huge priority for me. I’m just using it to test pronunciation techniques. If I permanently mess up my Hebrew pronunciation by doing things wrong it won’t matter too much. I’d be happy to just read some good Hebrew literature and watch a bit of tv and movies. Both mimicmethod and Olle Kjellin say reading is bad for pronunciation. Maybe it is, maybe it’s not. I just know that being illiterate doesn’t automatically make your pronunciation perfect. It’s also way harder and slower to progress in understanding a language if you don’t do some reading.

In Hebrew I’m working towards good general comprehension. I often notice my listening comprehension is a bit ahead of my general comprehension. Like I’ll recognize a word and its English meaning a second later but ultimately not feel like I’m understanding. At first I thought flashcards would encourage mental translation so I avoided them. But I find when I know the concept of a word and the sentence structure well I automatically stop mentally translating. So I’m trying subs2srs and the premade sentence decks that are already available on anki. I find it quicker to learn vocabulary words from sentence cards, but there’s a catch. I can only effectively learn words if I only have to learn one or two words in the sentence. So this would have been very exhausting if I did this from the beginning. So mental translation happens if ideas aren't self-contained, it’s a new word or the sentence structure is odd to me.
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