Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:00 am

Happy Year of the Pig! Let's start with a joke.

Toto nan klas. Pandan Toto nan klas komsa, men pwofesè ki ap rantre, madam Jocelyne, epi madam Jocelyne chape li, li chavire tèt anba, pidyou! De pye anlè! Oh!
Madam Jocelyne leve vap! Li di: Jòj, ki sa ou wè?
Jòj di: Ah, se janm ou sèlman mwen wè...
Madam Jocelyne di: Pran kaye ou, ale pase yon semenn lakay ou.
Li di: Ou, Memerik, ki sa ou wè?
Li di: Ah, mwen wè kuis ou...
Li di: Eh! Pran valiz ou ale pase yon mwa lakay ou.
Mem kote li di sa, Toto kòmanse ramase kaye li, li mete nan valiz li, li leve, li prale.
Madam Jocelyne di: Oh! Toto! Kote ou prale?
Toto di: Madam Jocelyne, pou sa m wè la, se vakans ou pral voye mwen fè lakay mwen.

Toto was in the classroom. As he was sitting there, his teacher -- Mrs. Jocelyne -- walked in. But she slipped and fell down! Her two legs up in the air! Oh!
Mrs. Jocelyne jumped back on her feet! She said, "George, what did you see?"
George said, Ah, I only saw your legs...
Ms. Jocelyne said: Take your books, go home and stay there for a week!
She said, And you, Memerik, what did you see?
He said, Ah, I only saw your thigh...
She said, Eh! Take your backpack, go home and stay there for a month!
As she was saying that, Toto started putting his books in his backpack, he got up and walked out.
Ms. Jocelyne said: Oh! Toto! Where are you going?
Toto said, Ms. Jocelyne, with what I saw, you'll be sending me home for the whole vacation.

It’s been a long Chinese New Year vacation, but not an idle one. During the long flights over the South China Sea, I managed to finish four books - three in Haitian Creole and one in Spanish.

The first book is Yon koudey sou pwoblem lekol Ayiti (A look a the problems of schools in Haiti) by Emmanuel W. Védrine. It is an essay about the state of education in Haiti, but it goes far beyond that. Vedrine addresses in details and with much nuance the issue of the place of French and Creole in postcolonial Haiti, not only in schools but in other social spheres as well. The book also includes interviews with a number of linguists and specialists on specific issues such as the state of Creole-language printing industry in the USA and Haiti, the evolution of Creole language in the post-Duvalier era, etc.

This whole issue of French vs. Creole appears to be a major fault line in Haiti and the diaspora and is the subject of countless discussions and debates, etc. See, for example, this video by Marli, where she replies to some arguments against giving more prominence to Creole in Haitian schools.

Vedrine's book is interesting as it provides a number of specific examples of how Creole is changing and entering the field of politics post-1986. For example, the expression "pran beton" (to take to the streets) -- which originally meant "to take part in the carnival" or "to protest" -- and whose meaning has been expanded to mean "to take a position" and "to stand firm".
Si yon moun di kounyeya «ou pran beton an», se pa sèlman pou al nan kanaval sou Chandmas men ou 'pran beton an' pou fè pase yon revandikasyon, pou fè pase yon dwa, pou fè pase yon «priz de pozisyon» ke w genyen. Se nan sans sa a 'beton an' vin pran yon siyifikasyon politik. 'Beton an' se la ke moun defann dwa yo, se youn nan kote moun defann dwa yo, se youn nan kote moun fè pase revandikasyon yo.

Védrine also talks about the issue of Creole orthography and appears to support André Vilaire Chéry's suggestion that the apostrophe (apostwòf) and hyphen (tirè) are not correctly used and perhaps superfluous.
Nou suiv sa yo rele ‘òtograf ofisyèl’ la lan tout sa li mande. Tout liv oubyen dokiman Éditions Deschamps sòti respekte òtograf sa a alalèt. Yon sèl ti eksepsyon petèt, se kesyon apostwòf nou pa anplwaye aprè de gwoup kòm ‘m ap’ (m'ap); ‘sa k ap fèt?’ (sa k'ap fèt?), elt. Natirèlman, nou obsève yon espas blan pou make elizyon an oubyen kontraksyon an. Aktyèlman an(n) Ayiti, nou kwè se sa pifò moun k ap itilize òtograf ofisyèl la fè. Yo pa vrèman itilize tirè (‘tirè’) nonplis: ‘chèz la’, olye: ‘chèz-la’...».

Another example given by Védrine is the word dilatwa, from French dilatoire. This is typical legalese jargon - although most French speakers whether in France, Canada or Haiti understand it, it is not the kind of word that one would use in daily life. But due to the events that took place in Haiti post-86, the expression fè dilatwa (as well as dilatwayè, i.e. someone who fè dilatwa) became a very common expression to describe "grand parleur, petit faiseur" politicians and other "back-seat drivers". In fact, Marli uses the word in one of her recent videos to criticize part of the Haitian diaspora.

The two other Haitian Creole books are Sezon Sechrès Ayiti, also by Védrine, and Bryant C. Freeman's annotated version of Tonton Liben by Carrié Paultre. Both are works of fiction about the hardships of life in the Haitian countryside and are filled with colloquial expressions, proverbs and rural vocab making them much harder than academic, political or journalistic texts.

While I can more or less read non-fiction essays in Haitian Creole as the same speed and with the same ease as in Spanish, fiction is really where I tend to stumble. Going forward, I should focus more on Creole fiction and spend less time on news/non fiction, as its becoming too comfortable!

That being said, even Haitian Creole non-fiction is not without its challenges, especially when it comes to faux amis. The more I study Haitian Creole, the more I realize that I don't know what I thought I knew. There are so many identical words in French and in Creole, but with a completely different meaning. This gives me the false impression that I understand what is being said/written, when actually I am thinking of the French meaning. Here are a few examples where French and Creole meanings are different:

michan - (French: mean, cruel) HC: brave (but also mean, cruel)
filannegui - (French: one thing leading to another) HC: nicely and accurately
pentad - (French: dumb) HC: cunning
kwoke (French: to bite) HC: to hang, to hug
tikade - (French: 15 minutes), HC: 1 or 2 minutes?
bwòdè - (French: embroidery) HC: chic, classy
bòzò - (French: idiot) HC: chic, classy
atoufè - (French: handyman) HC: daring, capable of anything
san-frèt - (French: calm) HC: fearful
soukont li - (French: for himself) HC: alone
tilezanj - (French: little angel) HC: innocent

Much like Canadian French, Haitian Creole has its fair share of "anglicismes", such as bokit - bucket ; tyeke - to check ; konpwoutè - computer ; fyouz - fuse ; brekè - breaker ; deplogue - unplug.

Here are some other interesting expressions I found in the three books:

pedi e sak e krab - Meaning to lose both the bag and the crab inside the bag. Similar to "Jeter le bébé avec l'eau du bain"?

Bay pè lebren - To lynch by necklacing, apparently in reference to a tire shop's advertisement where the spokesperson - Monsieur Lebrun - wore a tire around his neck.

Bat dlo pou fè bè - To churn water to make butter, meaning to make ends meet.

Ayiti Toma - Meaning "My dear Haiti", apparently a deformation of Fr. Haiti à moi.

Entelektyèl komokyèl - Meaning pseudo scholar. Apparently, komokyèl comes from Spanish "como quieras'' and is used in widely different contexts. It can sometimes mean what English speakers refer to as bullshit (pawól komokyèl).

A good source to learn Creole expressions and slang is the "Word of the Day" series by Haitian comedian Se Joe - who also provided the joke above. It is particularly good as it covers terms considered rude and vulgar, which are not easily found in written literature. I intend to listen through to 2-3 words per day and this way slowly go through his entire series.

In other news, Duke University Library has an archive of Radio Haiti from 1957 to 2003. Most clips appear to be in French, but the show Pawòl la Pale has 315 archived shows in Haitian Creole. Audio quality is quite good and although shows are a bit dated, they offer a glimpse in a very interesting time in Haiti's history.

Also, I am progressing in Haitian Creole DLI, slowly but surely, as always!


In Spanish, I finished the book Bumerán Chávez: Los fraudes que llevaron al colapso de Venezuela by Emili J. Blasco, a mostly journalistic work describing the roots of many problems in today's Venezuela - a very interesting read to better understand the on-going crisis there.

I have also been reading daily news in Spanish on my phone. I downloaded the BBC Mundo mobile app, which gives me a daily dose of easy texts on a wide range of topics. I continue with my daily review of the most difficult FSI drills. I have started Linguaphone Institute - Spanish 2nd Stage. The course is Iberia-focused and full of interesting information. It's a nice review but I don't feel I learn much at this point, I benefit much more from listening podcasts such as Radio Ambulante and Epicentro.


During the Chinese New Year, I had the opportunity to travel to Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, where I met many local ethnic Chinese. In Singapore especially I was struck by how efficient the state has been in basically erasing all traces of local Chinese dialects from its public space. Everywhere in the city-state I heard and read standard Putonghua — with occasional glimpses of conversations in Hokkien. No Cantonese, except among Chinese tourists in the airport. The official Putonghua in public announcements, advertisements, and spoken in shops and restaurants is so good it's scary - much to my regret, I did not even detect any trace of Nanyang accent. Same thing with traditional characters -- almost nonexistent (they are perhaps even more visible here in Beijing)... It almost seems like Singapore has been more successful in its "bulldozing" approach to Mandarin than the PRC itself. But not everyone seems to agree with this and efforts are by local groups to maintain a bit of diversity in this otherwise beautiful city.

Indonesia and Malaysia are interesting in their own way. What intrigued me is how Chinese communities in both countries seem to have a completely different philosophy. Every time I came across ethnic Chinese in Malaysia, they spoke some form of Chinese languages. In Indonesia, every single local Chinese I saw spoke Bahasa in public.


With the New Year of the Pig, I decided to take on another small challenge of my own and get back to my first love, Slavic languages. To be more specific, I intend on starting Ukrainian! Unlike Korean, where I focus exclusively on basic speaking skills, my goal for Ukrainian is to be able to understand — both written and spoken languages, with the same ease as I do with Russian.

Transitioning from Russian to Ukrainian is, according to what I read online — fairly straightforward. Speaking fluently is, of course, another matter entirely. There is also a important Ukrainian community in my hometown, with their own festival and cultural center, etc., which will serve as an additional motivation.

I think I can get there using one course, one grammar, and immediately transitioning to native materials. Needless to say, learning resources are not ideal — no FSI, no DLI... — but at least there is no lack of interesting native materials. Interestingly, the only fully transcribed Ukrainian podcast I found (freely available) is called Через Біблію, the same one I use for Haitian Creole — Atravè Labib! We’ll see how it goes!

I'll be using Ukrainian for Speakers of English Text for a start. The course is heavily focused on grammar, which is exactly what I need at this point. My choice was motivated, among other things, by these reviews.

I also looked into Glossika Ukrainian as a potential resource and was very disappointed. According to reviews posted on Russian forums, the course is filled with mistakes and Russisms. It seems the translator might not be a fully competent speaker, at least not according to accepted standards in Ukraine. This mirrors similar problems with others Glossika courses.

For example, the course uses "неділя" to mean "week" (from Russian "неделя"), whereas it would be "тиждень" in Ukrainian.

Украинское слово "неділя" означает только "воскресенье". Понятно, что миллионы людей с родным русским вставляют в свою украинскую речь русские слова, но это никак не может отменить нормы языка.

There is also wrong use of prepositions, also mimicking Russian usage:

"Вона розмовляє НА іспанськІЙ, але вона не розмовляє НА італЬянСКІЙ". Дно дна) даже анализировать не хочется этот бред, правильно будет "Вона розмовляє (без "на") іспанськОЮ, але вона не розмовляє (тоже "на" не нужно) італІйсЬкОЮ".

Another problem is bad translation due to English interference:

"Цей готель не дуже добрий", звучит это очень странно, ибо сие просто дословная калька с английского, я бы сказал "Я маю зауваження щодо готелю" или "Готель не відповідає моїм вимогам", но выражать недовольство в ключе "не хороший", просто смешно.))

Interestingly, such bad translation means the Glossika Ukrainian course might actually be the first course in Surzhyk.

To be fair, those comments are from 2016, so there may be a newer improved version available now!

3 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:42 am

Mes études avancent au fil des jours de manière régulière, quoique je sens que mon progrès est clairement plus rapide en espagnol qu’en créole. Je suis parfois frustré lorsque je ne suis pas capable de décoder des vidéos haïtiennes sur YouTube, malgré tous mes efforts… Mais le fait est que cette frustration fait partie du processus d’apprentissage et que seule la régularité est à même d’en venir à bout !

Cette phrase, trouvé dans un texte venant d’Haïti, exprime particulièrement mes sentiments à ce sujet : Nou va gen ti kannòt nou ak ti zaviwon nou men pa bliye, lanmè a laj anpil. Nous avons notre petit canot et notre petit aviron, mais il ne faut pas oublier que l’océan est grand !

Beaucoup d’écoute cette semaine, en commençant par Pawòl la Pale: Kriz nan inivèsite leta, dans les archives de Radio Haïti. Ma compréhension est correcte, meilleure que je ne l’aurais cru considérant la qualité de l’extrait. La passion des intervenants a su me gardé concentré sur les propos.

J’ai également poursuivi la série Word of the Day de Se Joe. Je suis présentement au 120e, soit plus de la moitié. Je dois dire que c’est très utile, et déjà je vois des mots appris dans cette série dans les textes et vidéos haïtiennes que je consomme. Le fait que plusieurs des mots et expressions soient des insultes ou des références sexuelles est également une introduction préciseuse au slang créole.

J’écoute au moins une vidéo d’Ambassador Marli chaque jour et j’arrive à comprendre près de 90-95% de ses propos. Mais c’est précisément ce 5-10% qui tend à me rendre fou ! Le plus souvent, il s’agit d’une expression de la langue parlée composée de deux mots que je n’arrive pas à trouver dans mes dictionnaires. Dans tous les cas, son sourire est cvontagieux et les arguments qu'elles partagent dans ses vidéos sont intéressants et vont souvent à l'encontre de ce qu'on entend venant d'autres médias.

J’ai finalement commencé à écouter les enregistrements de Indiana University Creole Institute en provenance d’Au Cap – ils sont absolument magiques ! Je suis au deuxième à présent et les témoignages sont touchants et empreint de vérité. Les enfants en particulier sont incroyablement lucides et rationnels lorsqu’ils parlent du monde qui les entoure, de la pauvreté et de la criminalité, peut-être plus que certains adultes.

Au-delà du propos qui rend humble, les enregistrements sont un véritable trésor pour un apprenant du créole. Ce qui frappe d’abord, c’est à quel point le créole est peu économique, comparé au russe, au mandarin ou au français (qui n’est pas réputé pour son économie de mots non plus !). Les répondants souvent répètent la même idée à deux ou trois reprises dans une même phrase en réponse aux questions. Il faut m’habituer à cette manière d’expression qui diffère tant des autres langues que j’ai apprises.

On observe aussi les différents styles de créole, notamment chez les étudiants qui sont exposés au français et qui tendent à parler le kreyòl swa (créole en soie, i.e. frenchified creole). Les enregistrements sont également remplis à rebord d’expressions quotidiennes qui, bien qu’elles prennent leurs racines en français, n’ont absolument rien à voir avec la langue de Molière. Un exemple : fè woulo ak, qui littéralement veut dire « faire un rouleau », mais qui signifie en créole « demander des explications pour un comportement possiblement répréhensible ». Il est absolument impossible pour un locuteur francophone de comprendre cette expression sans des explications !

En écoutant ces enregistrements, non seulement je suis tombé sous le charme des répondants, mais j’ai également compris une chose importante. Une des raisons pour lesquelles j’ai de la difficulté à comprendre le créole parlé est la prosodie si particulièrement de la langue. Prenons par exemple cette phrase, prononcée par une jeune fille qui décrit son quartier :
M pa santi m byen dutou, paske m pa ka tande bwi anpil.

À première écoute, j’ai cru comprendre qu’elle disait :
Je ne me sens pas bien du tout, parce que je ne suis pas capable d’entendre les nombreux bruits.

Ce qui ne fait pas de sens dans le contexte, car elle se plaint que son quartier est trop bruyant. Or, ce qu’elle dit en fait, c’est :
Je ne me sens pas bien du tout, parce que je ne suis pas capable d’entendre (car il y a) beaucoup de bruits.

Il y a en fait trois clauses, et non pas deux. Mon erreur de compréhension vient du fait que la jeune fille ne fait (presque) aucune pause entre les deux dernières clauses, alors qu’en français et dans toutes les autres langues que je parle, il y aurait obligatoirement une pause ou un mot-connecteur pour signifier la relation de cause à effet. Cette absence de pause est déroutante. J’observe la même chose dans la série Word of the Day de Se Joe : deux clauses sont prononcées comme si elles ne formaient qu’une seule. Je crois bien qu’il me faudra plusieurs dizaines d’heures d’écoute avant de m’y habituer.

J’ai également commencé les leçons audio sur le blogue Haitian Creole : les enregistrements audio sont malheureusement trop lents, surtout après avoir écouté les témoignages d’Au Cap. Par contre, cela reste une bonne pratique pour assimiler du nouveau vocabulaire et pour répéter à la suite des acteurs. Ce faisant, j’ai eu une belle surprise : l’une des leçons se terminait par une chanson qui m’a amené à découvrir l’excellent chanteur haïtien Issa El Saieh. Ce chanteur haïtien d’origine arabe est décédé en 2005. Son groupe musical – l’Orchestre Issa El Saieh – est décritcomme “one of the island’s greatest bands ever” et “one of the best musical groups in Latin America during the 40s and 50s.”

Voici l’un de ces pieces disponibles sur YouTube, avec la traduction en anglais venant du blogue Haitian Creole :
Anana sila bon pou manje! -- This pineapple is good to eat!
Se paske li bèl, li gwo, li lou, e li peze -- That’s because it looks good, it’s heavy, and it has weight
Men pratik, di mwen, konbyen w mande? -- But my clientele, tell me how much do you ask?
Li mèt nenpòt pri, cheri, ou konnen m’ape peye -- Whatever the price, honey, you know I’ll pay.
O ala yon bèl anana! (bis) -- Oh what beautiful pineapple!

Se paske li bèl, li gwo, li lou, e li peze -- That’s because it’s beautiful, it’s heavy, and it has weight
Ban m moso pou m pot lakay -- Give me some to bring home
Li mèt pouri, li mèt gate -- Whether it’s rotten or spoiled
Ban m moso pou m pot lakay! -- Give me some to bring home!
Li mèt pouri, li mèt pa bon --Whether it’s rotten or not good
Ban m moso pou m pot lakay! -- Give me some to bring home!

En espagnol, je suis devenu un lecteur avide et j’éprouve beaucoup de plaisir à lire dans cette langue. Mon objectif de lire 10 livres sera bientôt dépassé – surtout considérant que je compte des livres, pas des blocs de 50 pages comme sur le forum !

D’abord, j’ai terminé les quatre tômes de Memoria para los ausentes du COMISEDH, un livre documentaire sur les disparitions forcées, plus de 3 000, au Pérou – un récit facile du point du vue linguistique, mais bouleversant d’un point du vue humain. Il y a quelque chose de profondément troublant dans le fait de faire disparaître quelqu’un, en ensuite d’en nier toute responsabilité, privant les victimes collatérales de la possibilité de faire leur deuil. Le fait que la dernière de ces disparitions se soit produite en 1996 est choquant. Le fait ces disparitions aient été effectuées sous des gouvernements démocratiques est terrifiant. Avec tout ce qui se passe ces derniers temps à Beijing, je ne devrais pas lire ce genre de livre avant de dormir – question d’éviter de faire de l’insomnie !

J’ai également terminé Vuelo Nocturno (Vol de Nuit) de Saint-Exupéry grâce à un texte parallèle. Son style très économique dans les dialogues, mais riche en figures de style d’inspiration marine est difficile d’approche, mais tout de même accessible à mon niveau. Je crois que je vais poursuivre avec un autre de ses romans bientôt.

Je suis présentement en train de lire Agatha Christie et je compte bien poursuivre avec plusieurs de ces romans : rien de mieux que l’intrigue policière pour se motiver à lire plus et vite.

Un mot dans Vuelo Nocturno a suscité ma curiosité dans ce livre : labrador. Je n’avais rencontré que campesino jusqu’ici, et j’ai été intéressé à savoir s’il y avait un lien avec la partie septentrional du Québec. En effet, il y en a un ! Le Labrador canadien doit son nom à João Fernandes Lavrador, un explorateur portugais qui a « découvert » les côtes de la péninsule en 1498. Lavrador (paysan) en portugais se traduit par labrador en espagnol. Comme quoi l’étude des langues peut nous révéler l’existence de liens insoupçonnés.

Je poursuis toujours avec le cours avancé de Linguaphone Institute et ma deuxième vague avec FSI. Je me suis également inscrit au défi Speaking Challenge pour le mois de mars – avec l’espagnol.

Michel Degraff a publié sur Facebook cette image intéressante à l’occation du jour des langues maternelles :
Les quatre principes de l’orthographie du créole
1. Chaque lettre joue son rôle.
2. Chaque son s'écrit d'une même manière.
3. Aucune lettre n'est muette.
4. Chaque lettre n'a qu'un seul son.

Par la suite, une personne sur Facebook a posé la question suivante :
Èske li pa dwe di yonn nan de sa yo :
1) Tout lèt rete nan wòl yo.
2) Chak lèt rete nan wòl li.
Èske yon pwonon posesif pa ta dwe konresponn ak sijè ki kòmande fraz la ?

Il demande si l’utilisation du mot « chak » ne demande pas plutôt l’utilisation de « li » (le singulier) au lieu de « yo », marque du pluriel. Michel Degraff a répondu de la manière suivante :
An kreyòl, nou jwenn pwonon sengilye (“li”) oswa pliryèl (“yo”) ki mache ak “chak”. Ou ka fouye zo nan kalalou done yo epi w ava konfime sa.

Intéressant ! Degraff répond que « chak » en créole peut être soit pluriel ou singulier – une autre preuve de la flexibilité qui fait du créole une langue si malléable et vivante ! Pour moi aussi célébrer cette journée si importante, je me permets de publier ici un poème d’Emmanuel W. Védrine et sa traduction (pas de moi) sur le créole :
Se Kreyòl mwen pale
Mèsi Papa Bondye dèske se kreyòl mwen pale
Ala bèl lang sa a bèl!
Mwen di sa m panse ladan san tèt grate
Mwen pa gen okenn vèb pou m konjige,
Okenn sibjonktif m ap anplwaye
Pa gen fè tilititi
Pou blofe pitit natifnatal yon peyi
Mèsi Papa dèske se an kreyòl mwen panse
Mèsi dèske m fèt sou tè d Ayiti
Kote lang sa a soti
Lang yon dal gwo Ewo te pale:
Yo tout te pale kreyòl
Se nan lang sa a yo te kominike
Pou yo te ban m libète
Yon lang ki pa lang vini
Lang kolon yo ta renmen detwi
Men m p ap boukante lang mwen an
Pou lang ki soti lòt kontinan
Mwen p ap fè boukantay pou okenn bagay
Zafè sila yo ki renmen esklavay
Fòk se li pou m pale
Se nan li pou m reve
Se li m pi renmen
Se li ki san mwen
Kreyòl se nanm mwen
Nenpòt Ayisyen ki ta meprize lang sa a
Pa yon vrè kreyòl
Se pa yon vrè natifnatal peyi d Ayiti
Son w ti sousou lòt peyi
Yon sousoubrake k pa gen kote pou l rete
Yon reskiyè k toujou ap tann kras manje
Yon moun ki san diyite
Ki pa konn sa l ye.

I speak Kreyol
Thank you Father God for being able to speak Creole
What’s a beautiful language!
I say what I want in it without scratching my head
I don’t have to conjugate verbs to communicate,
No use of the subjunctive
No pretentious tilititi speech
To bluff natives of a country
Thank you Father for being able to speak Creole
Thank you for my birth place, Haiti
Where this language was born
A language spoken by a bunch of Great Heroes:
Toussaint L’Ouverture
Jean-Jacques Dessalines
Capois Lamort
Henri Christophe
Charlemagne Peralte
They all spoke Creole
They communicated in that language
To be able to give me freedom
A home made language
Language that the Settlers would like to destroy
But I am not swapping my language
For languages coming from other continents
I am not swapping it for anything
Too bad for those who like slavery
It’s the one I must speak
I dream in it
It’s the one I like the most
It’s my blood
Creole is my soul
Any Haitian who’d look down on this lanuage
Would not be considered a true Creole
Not a real native of Haiti
But a subservient of another country
A flunky who has no place to live
A moocher who’s always waiting for left over food
A person with no dignity
One who doesn’t know who he is.

Bon courage mes amis dans vos projets !
2 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:12 am

Este post va a ser un poco diferente de los anteriores. Veo mi bitácora como un lugar para experimentar, donde puedo probar diferentes estilos et maneras de exprimirme. Quizás los postes qui vienen van a ser de la misma manera, quizás no. A decir verdad, no creo que escribir en español sea algo demasiado difícil en sí mismo, pero es algo que necesita tiempo, mucho tiempo a veces, y en mi vida, o por lo menos en los ultimas semanas, el tiempo es precisamente lo que me falta mucho.

No es que soy un hombre ocupado. Claro que trabajo todos los días, pero no se trata de un trabajo muy exigente o que requiere mucho tiempo (al contrario, uno podría decir que mi trabajo es demasiado flojo). No hay muchas cosas que tengo que hacer, pero hay muchas cosas que quiero hacer todos los días. Mi familia, el ejercicio físico y las tareas cotidianas son muy importantes. Por supuesto, las lenguas extranjeras ocupan también una gran parte de mi tiempo.

Aunque estudio casi todos los días, por lo menos 2 o 3 horas, a veces siento como una ansiedad dentro de mí: me acuesto por la noche, y tengo la profunda impresión que no he estudiado bastante. Me puso nervioso porque siento que yo debería haber estudiado más o de una manera más efectiva... ¡Que pesadilla!

En español, me convertí en un lector codicioso. Solamente en los ultimas semanas, creo que leí mas libros en español que en francés todo el ano pasado. Encuentro en español un sentimiento de satisfacción muy grande, es como si hubiera encontrado el placer de la lectura otra vez. Sumergirse en un buen libro es algo maravilloso y me agradece mucho.

Al contrario de mucha gente, no me quiero mucho leer obras de ficción. Tengo la convicción de que en la vida, en la historia y en las diversas naciones de la planeta se puede encontrar historias y acontecimientos que son mas excelentes y asombrosos que lo que se halla en obras de ficción. Y por haber sucedido de veras, esos acontecimientos me parecen mucho más interesantes.

He encontrado hace unos días el libro "El manual del perfecto idiota latinoamericano", una obra de Montaner, y estoy leyendo ese libro de la misma manera que como un pastel: con mucho gusto y placer. El estilo del autor es exactamente lo que me gusta - inteligente, rápido, a veces cruel y despiadado, a veces muy sarcástico, pero siempre humoroso. Siento que Montaner no oída a la gente que critique, aunque sus críticos pueden ser muy acerbos.

Es el primero libro en español que me ha hecho sonreír y reír - y eso es algo muy maravilloso. Creo que la capacidad de reír en idioma extranjero, o por lo menos de entender porque une cosa es tanto cómica, es la prueba que uno ha llegado a un nivel bastante alto de fluencia. Claro, aún hay que recorrer un camino muy largo antes que yo pueda decir que hablo español - pero cuando leo los libros de
Montaner, tengo la convicción que estoy caminando hacia adelante.

Por lo pronto, creo que voy a seguir en la misma dirección. No siento la necesitad de estudiar de manera demasiado seriosa la lengua. Quiero continuar a leer, divertirme et hacer que el idioma español, poco a poco, se transforme en algo que es una parte de mi vida, algo que ya no pudiera dejar u olvidar. Y por eso, no necesito hablar perfectamente, ni tampoco escribir sin errores, pero necesito leer de manera fácil, rápida y relajada. Pues no estudio los idiomas por hablar con la gente - eso es una ventaja, claro, pero mi finalidad siempre fue de poder entender sin mayor dificultad a los autores de esos idiomas. 


Mwen toujou la, mezanmi, letenel, wi! Gen kèk mwa depi lè mwen te lage kò m nan kreyòl ayisyen tout bon vre, m te aprann anpil bagay nouvèl. Kounye a, mwen gen foli kreyòl ayisyen, kompèm. Kreyòl monte mwen tankou lwa monte moun, wi, se tankou foli prann mwen, ou rann?

Depi m komanse etudye kreyòl, mwen jwenn yon kilti ke m pa konnen. Rale mennen kase, chak jou mwen kenbe disiplin rèd rèd, chak jou m’ap fè yon ti tan pou etudye, gade yon video oubyen koute yon chante kreyòl. Sa se enpotan anpil, paske sèl jan pou mwen ka fè pwogrè nan etid pa m, se etap pa etap, chak jou mwen fè un ti kras, chak jou mwen aprann kèk mo. Si ou fè yon pa kita, yon pa nago, ou pa janm pwoche bi w, epi ou pa janm rive pale kreyòl natifnatal.

Donk, se etudye m’ap etudye lang sa a chak jou, wi, men pa ka di mwen kap pale kreyòl tout bon vre ankò. Mwen se kreyòl swa m’ap pale, wi, men pa kreyòl natifnatal. Mwen kap konprann anpil bagay, men mwen pa ankò ka pale tankou mwen ta vle pale, mwen pa kap di tout bagay ke mwen ta renmen di, epi mwen pa ankò kap pale jan moun Ayiti pale.

Pou aprann epi pratike lang sa a, lè mwen mache lari pou ale travay pa m, mwen babye kèk mo kreyòl pou kont mwen. Moun ki wè mwen yo ta pense mwen se bèkèkè, wi. Anfèt, mwen pa di krik ankò nan kreyòl ak ayisyen tout bon vre.

Men lè fatig pran mwen, mwen fè lit pa m, epi m’ap domi, mwen santi kèpòpòz, paske mwen pa pran pàn ! Mwen konen : demen m’ap kontinye etudye kreyòl !

Gen de fwa mwen yon ti kras dekouraje. Mwen kwè gen anpil moun ki ta di mwen : pou ki sa ou etudye bagay tankou kreyòl? Kite sa tonbe, wi ! Pito ou etudye lòt lang pli itil kouwè Alman. Nan pwen youn lot bagay pou ou fè, kompè?

Wi, kreyòl gen de lè pa itil anpil, men mwen renmen li. Se plezi menm mwen prann lè mwen gade videyo kreyòl nan YouTube, ou rann? Gen yon Ayisyen, li rele Frere Renel, se pa de videyo li te fè nan Youtube, se superstar Ayiti li ye. M pa konprann tout sa k li di, men m ap gade, paske se plèzi m’a prann, wi. Yon lòt kanal YouTube ke mwen renmen anpil se Aba ak Preach. Se de moun Monréyal, youn de se ayisyen, ki te fè anpil videyo sou anpil sijè. Yo pale sou Ayiti, sou kreyòl, sou anpil bagay ki pase Kanada epi Kébek.

Lòt bagay mwen fè chak jou se mwen koute tout kalite chante Ayiti. Mwen pa kwè sa non, men se vrè, Ayiti gen anpil bon chante epi anpil bon chantè tou. Soti rap rive pop, Ayiti gen tout kalite chante ou ta renmen. Mwen jwenn youn chantè rap ki rele Barikad Crew, yo fè anpil chante depi plizyè ane, wi papa, se renmen m’ap renmen chante yo!

Se anpil difisil jwenn videyo kreyòl ki gen soutit. Men yè mwen te sèzi, wi, paske mwen te jwenn yon ti videyo ki gen soutit kreyòl. Videyo sa a menm pa twòp enteresan, paske li se videyo gouvènman ayisyen. Nan videyo sa a, gen prezidan ayiti Jovenel Moise ki di li ap goumen ak koripsyon nan peyi, wi papa !






На украинском фронте - пока что все спокойно.
2 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:55 am

Пристегнитесь, ребята, и поехали!

Прежде всего, мне хочется сказать несколько слов о русском языке. Хотя я (более-менее) умею писать по-английски и по-китайски достаточно свободно, используя только мой активный словарный запас, дело немножко другое когда пишу по-русски. Прошли много лет после того как последний раз я говорил или писал по-русски, и мне стало трудно. Я все еще могу понимать устную речь и читать без особых проблем, но писать - дело тонкое.

После того как закончил учебу мою в Москве в 2007 году, я редко использовал русский язык. Потом, я переехал в китай и снова стал общаться с русскоговорящими друзьями. Прежде всего, я говорил по-русски с друзьями и однокурсниками в моем университете, расположен недалеко от Монголии. Надо сказать что там русских не было - я дружил прежде всего со студентами из бывших советских республик как Узбекистан, Казахстан, Молдавия, и так далее. Хотя у них русский язык не был родным, они все говорили свободно и даже красиво, с каким-то очен интересным и мягким акцентом.

Кроме этого, я так же съездил в Россию и в постсоветское пространство раза три-четыре после того как я окончил университет. Где бы я не был, я говорил по-русски без проблем и без негативной реакций со стороны моих собеседников. На самом деле, во многих крупных городах Центральный Азии я действительно почувствовал, что русский - самый использованный язык для общения. Это особенно верно в Кыргызстане, но и так ж в Армении. С другой стороны, только в Азербайджане я почувствовал, что русский язык не так полезен.

Все это говорит о том, что русский язык раньше был большой частью моей жизни. А сейчас, дело не так. Я все еще использую его, когда мне нужно, но в отличие от китайского, он уже не важная часть моей работы или моей повседневной жизни.

Давайте сменим тему!

Я уже говорил здесь о моей глубокой любви к дневникам путешествий. Я читаю все виды и всевозможные дневники путешествий, на многих языках и от разных людей. Я уже говорил об истории путешествия на острове Гаити, написанной молодой китаянкой. И так, на этот раз, я хочу поговорить о другом дневнике, написанном молодыми людьми из России. Я нашел их блог в рунете. Можете прочитать его здесь. Фотографии особенно красивые!

Что меня поразило прежде всего в их дневнике - это то, что авторы смеются над американскими туристами, которыми, по словам автора, смотрят на мир как "в сафари" через окно их роскошного джипа. Но видимо они сами так себя вeли когда были в Гаити. Несмотря на это, мне понравились их фотографие, через которые мы видим хорошие примеры того, как гаитянский креольский язык используется в рекламе на улице на Гаити. Например:

Se flit flit... epi ale!
Пш-шт, пш-шт! и поехали!

Travay dye
Божья работа

Koman'w wè'm
Men rezilta a
Как ты видишь меня
И вот результат

Кроме красивых фотографий, в целом, я был разочарован их дневником. В отличие от молодой китайской путешественники, ребята видимо не общались с местными жителями. Много писали о Гаити и людях там, но, кажется, никогда не разговаривали с людьми. Всегда их держали на расстоянии.

Все это доказывают то, что язык действительно определяет, как мы воспринимаем мир. Я не знаю, на каком языке говорили эти ребята. Скорее всего, на английском. Но они даже не упоминают то, что гаитянский язык является креольским, что также является признаком того, что он даже не пытался общаться.

Мало того, что многие их сведения являются ложными или полными предрассудков и полуправды, но худшее что они даже не отправились в лучшие места в Порт-о-Пренсе! Было ощущение, что они потратили впустую свое время в Гаити!

Я сам не тот, кто вольно разговаривает с незнакомыми людьми во время путешествия. Но нужно признать, что их негативное восприятие Гаити, скорее всего - результат их отсутствия общения с местными жителями. Так что продолжайте путешествовать! И продолжайте писать дневники, потому что мне нравится их читать!

Довольно! Это все, что я хотел сказать об этом, и даже гораздо больше. Давайте теперь перейдем к сути дела: украинский язык.

Я планировал начать изучать украинский уже давно назад, и на самом деле можно сказать, что я не настоящий « новичок » (…это слово приобрело совершенно иной оттенок после событий прошлого года...). Помимо политики и недавних событий, меня сильно привлекает Украина как страна, и также интересует меня богатое и интересное культурное производтство Украины, включая музыку, кино и телевидение. Хорошим примером является фильм Сергея Лозницы «Донбасс» с 2018 года.


На данный момент, я решил использовать канадский учебник под названием Ukrainian for Speakers of English. Автор - Pома З. Франко, заведующий кафедрой современных языков в университете Саскачевана.

Интересным фактом является то, что учебник был специально разработан и написан для украинской общины в Канаде. Говорят что более миллиона канадско-украинских живут в Канаде, основном в Виннипеге, Эдмонтоне, Калгари и др., то есть в основном в западной части страны. Это довольно далеко от меня, хотя тоже есть немаленькая община в Монреале. Поэтому, согласно автору, учебник включает в себя слова и выражения принадлежащие к украинскому диалекту канадско-украинских.

На эту тему, украинское телевидение показывает комедий шоу «Файна Юкрайна», очень похоже на «Наша Russia» и «Little Britain». В одном из эпизодов, одна молодая украинка из Канады - прекрасно говорящая по-украински - общается со своим профессором университета, который говорит на каком-то сильно русифицированном суржике. Разумеется, ситуация производит комический эффект!

SpeakUkraine.net - еще один неплохой материал для студентов украинского языка. Это веб-сайт, выпущен в 2018 году, который предлагает десятки полностью бесплатних уроков. Веб-сайт даже имеет встроенную SRS функцию. В некотором смысле, сайт похоже на DuoLingo, но без грамматических объяснений. Таким образом, он является идеальным дополнительным ресурсом к учебнику Ромы З. Франко.

Еще один материал, который я обязательно буду использовать позже, это веб-сайт под названием Ukrainer.net. Он представляет много интересных историй, и каждая включает в себя длинную статью и видео на украинском языке (или на суржике). Это один из немногих каналов на YouTube с украинскими субтитрами (слава богу!).

Я думаю, что это все хватит, пока. Если через несколько месяцев я смогу понимать как письменную, так и устную речь, то я буду вполне доволен!

Пока, ребята!
3 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:30 pm

I don't have much time lately to write here, but let's do a quick review of the last week.

In Spanish, everything has been going very smoothly. I finished reading my 12th book yesterday (Viaje al Corazon de Cuba), and with every Spanish book I finish I am enjoying more and more reading in the language. In fact, I enjoy it so much that I am sometimes forgetting that I am reading in a foreign language. This is pure fun and I want to keep it that way. Same thing with podcasts. I recently discovered Diana Uribe, a prolific Colombian historian with a radio show. Her passion for history and her energetic voice are addictive. Hundreds of episodes of her radio show are available online on YouTube (with automatically-generated subtitles). I am currently listening to her 30-part La historia de México and will definitely continue with her other shows when I am done - as they say, there is embarras du choix! I am also listening daily to Enchufe, Alan X El Mundo, and a few others shows in YouTube. For fun I calculated how much time I spent on native Spanish content (pages of books, hours of podcasts and YouTubers, etc.) and I was surprised at the number. I will soon have completed a Super Challenge in Spanish, and this is just the beginning, I do not intend to stop there.

In Haitian Creole, things have been slower, as most of my time is taken by Spanish. I did finish Se Joe's Word of the Day series, and I am progressing -although very slowly- through the last DLI lessons. I am also slowly reading through Ann Bay Lodyans, a collection of very entertaining Haitian folktales. I should focus and complete both this month. There is no doubt that I am reading is much better and faster than before. Overall, since starting studying Haitian Creole a few months ago, I have compiled a list of 700 unknown words, and I am slowly but surely entering them into Anki. Not the most efficient way to review vocab, but unlike Spanish, I cannot rely only on reading for HC (not enough material...). Somehow I need artificial exposure to the language, and Anki remains the best way to do that. I have to say I didn't do much listening since stopping Atrave Labib, which is a real shame. I have to get my stuff together and re-start listening to HC on YouTube. I occasionally listen to VOA Haitian Creole and my understanding has improved tremendously. The problem is I lose interest reading about the umpteenth government crisis in Haiti's government... Something interesting happened the other day: I came across an old Quebec TV clip on YouTube showing an altercation between Montreal police officers and young people, some of who were speaking a mix of English, Canadian French and Creole, and -tadam!- I understood perfectly what they were saying. So I guess there is progress.

In Korean, I enthusiastically started the first few lessons of Korean FSI and quickly abandoned it when my SO gave it a devastating review. Strange voice tone, useless politeness level, awkward sentence construction... Dialogues from Talk To Me In Korean remain my best bet for now if I want to improve. The question is, do I want to improve, or am I happy with my current level? I have been watching dramas, Sky Castle and Dear My Friends, which I recommend highly, especially Sky Castle. There is one particular scene in there involving Korean hanzas which had me laughing for days!

In Ukrainian, I spoke too fast about SpeakUkraine.net - the whole site has been a huge disappointment. Most of the time exercises simply don't work (it might be my web browser though...). When they do work, they are so repetitive that they become absolutely buzzkilling and inefficient. It's a real shame because audio recordings are excellent. I might try to find a way to simply use the recordings by downloading them, we shall see.

In Mandarin, outside of my workplace, where Mandarin is the working language, I watch Korean dramas with Chinese characters, which does wonder to improve my reading speed. I also watched a very distributing movie in Mandarin, An Elephant Sitting Still. I will try to review it in more details in my next post, but those of you who are interested in knowing what it feels like to live in China nowadays should definitely see it. The director Hu Bo killed himself shortly after completing the movie.

I bought tickets for a trip to the Balkans in about two months from now. That means I will have to keep myself from the temptation that is shqip!

Since I started working in Beijing a few years ago, I put together my very own little Canadian-French - Mandarin glossary. As of now, I have about 2000 words and expressions in both languages. I am nearing the end of my contract here and I am now thinking about publishing the glossary. I think it might be useful for Chinese people living in Quebec/Canada to have access to such a list to facilitate their integration and understanding of Quebecois French. The problem is I have yet to decide what is the best way to make it available. Should I publish it on a blog? In a epub or PDF? Or maybe do it old-school and contact some publishing houses? Suggestions are welcome! Anyway, if I decide to go forward with this project, it will definitely take much of my time. We shall see!
4 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:32 am

I had the brilliant idea to kick start my jogging routine about two weeks ago, but I was over ambitious and ended up with a stress fracture in my left leg. Nothing serious, but no running for at least one month and much, much less walking. I went from about 20,000 daily steps to 7,000 this week, which means less time to listen to material! The good thing is I spend more time lying on the couch drinking coffee and reading Spanish books, so there’s a silver lining to everything.

Despite this, I tried to stick to my routine. In Spanish, I listen to Diana Uribe, Radio Ambulante, Epicentro on a quasi daily basis. I am halfway through Uribe's History of México and I never realized how few I knew about our other NAFTA partner. I started listening to a podcast called La Mesa from Univision which I like quite a lot. Each episode contains one or two short interviews with members of the Latino community in the US. Their stories are fascinating and often heartbreaking. The host, León Krauz, has a incredible talent to skip the usual bla-bla and go straight to the point where it hurts. I listened to about 15 episodes and highly recommend it.

I just finished my 15th book in Spanish, El reino de este mundo, by Cuban author Alejo Carpentier, about the Haitian revolution. I enjoyed every page of it, actually I would have taken more, it was too short! Going forward I have a list of books to read now, mostly classics from 20th century Latino American authors, so no time to slack off.

For both reading and listening in Spanish, I am aiming for a nice round number before slowing things down and focusing more on other languages. At the moment, 100 hours of reading-listening native materials + 5000 pages look about right. I will always be able to continue with Spanish, although at a slower pace, after I reach those symbolic numbers. If everything goes as planned, I should hit my target by the end of April.

In Haitian Creole, I was unable to complete my goal of finishing DLI and Ann bay lodyans last week - but will definitely do it this week. As Spanish is becoming more and more comfortable, I found myself a bit reluctant to focus on HC, where spoken speech remains difficult. I did listen to a number of clips on YouTube, trying to find a series I could watch daily, but no luck.

Fortunately, my Facebook feed brings me much of my daily Creole content, mostly from Marli and the people around her. I like her style - positive, sunny and constructive. Such a difference with most of the news coming out of Haiti these last months. Her channel is like a breath of fresh air. I need to make it part of my daily routine in a more official way, much like Atrave Labib was. As an example, you can take a look at the bilingual Creole-English clip below. It’s just a few minutes and sure to put a smile on your face!

There was a small controversy over the visit of ex President Martelly in Montreal - not as an ex politician but as a singer. He performed recently in Okay and was ‘stoned’, presumably by unhappy political opponents in the crowd. Anyway, he was finally prevented from entering Canada after calls from the local Haitian community and the mayor. I followed a bit of the debate on FB in HC, so that’s good. I still to work to work through the recordings from Duke University. I completed three out of ten and hope to finish everything before my May vacations.

In other new, I’ve been reading a bit in Russian about the Ukrainian elections, but nothing to write home about. I was surprised to read (from members of the Ukrainian community in Canada) that the comedian who came in first place in the first round, Volodymyr Zelensky, does not actually speak fluent Ukrainian?

I ended up watching many Chinese movies in the last two weeks and I wish to recommend three of them: more on that below. On a personal level, I am writing a grant application which should bring me to Africa for a few months if successful, let's see how that goes. My wife recently received her immigration papers from both Canada and Quebec and guess what: she is now eligible to study French full time in government-sponsored establishments and be paid to do it. Imagine that: being paid to study a language! She is living the dream!










3 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:06 am

Good news: I finally finished both Haitian Creole DLI and Ann Bay Lodyans! I highly recommend both resources, although it's really a shame that the HC DLI audio is of such bad quality. Let's hope a Good Samaritan will find a better version of the audio and put it online. Ann Bay Lodyans is an incredible collection of fables, jokes and short stories from Haitian folklore, full of interesting wisdom.

- Who will I catch today?
- Only two kinds of pencil don’t have an eraser: God's pencil and the foreigners’ pencil.

- In 23 months, you will have power 24 hours per day!

Reactions of President Jovenel
- Street protests! Cars are getting destroyed!
- We do not agree with the budget! Life is already too expensive!
- Tell us something!

- (Islands: ) Chili, USA, Haitian Armed Forces
- (In the sand: ) Life is too expensive, Unemployment, Inflation
- (On the t-shirt: ) The youth

- Not so fast, you hear? The country will fall back into insecurity!
- Stay! Stay!
- What will I do with my CV? I don't have any godfather or godmother...
- Go! Go!
2 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:35 pm

I have reached the very last pages of Cien años de soledad today. What an incredible book! By far the best I have read in Spanish up to now. Not only is the set of characters absolutely magic, the language is much more approachable than some of the Mexican classics I have been reading lately. Márquez is always straightforward, direct, but never simplistic. The symbolism used throughout the book is never an obstacle to understanding and getting attached to the Buendía family. I will definitely continue with another Márquez book once I am done.

I should hit my targets of 5,000 pages read and 100 listening hours in Spanish by next week-end, if everything goes according to plan. My reading speed has improved tremendously since I started this blog, and my listening comprehension even more. I was reading a scientific article posted somewhere on this forum that basically explained that the best and most accurate factor in predicting the performance of a student in a foreign language test was to look at the time spent on actually using the language. My recent experience with Spanish really convinced me that it’s true : there is no secret. Just do it. That’s it. The more you do it, the easier it will become. Adopting a specific time objective like I did, for example 500, 1,000 or 2,000 hours, may seem a bit artificial and mechanical at best, but at the end of the day, I do believe it gave me the momentum to improve and to push forward.

As I am approaching my objectives, my motivation has never been higher. The downside is that I have focused whatever time and energy I have on reading and watching native materials in Spanish, neglecting Haitian Creole. Luckily I can count on the people I follow on Facebook to give me a daily dose of HC. It’s enough to keep it “alive” in my mind, but definitely not enough to make any significant improvement.

Same thing with Mandarin and Russian. I have some exposure to Korean through TV shows such as Spanish Albergue, SkyCastle and others, but I don’t think of them as language learning opportunities, but more as entertainment time.

That being said, I have been toying around with Persian lately, and I finished the first 7 Assimil le Persan sans Peine lessons. I like the sound and the feeling of the language. My first thoughts were amazement at how evident is Farsi’s Indo European background. Similarities with Russian are particularly striking. The alphabet, although very intimidating at first, is really not that big of a deal after just one week. The fact that one is unable to read the short vowels in an unknown word remains quite a puzzle, but I see it as a challenge. From a linguistic point of view, I like the Persian diglossia, which kind of reminds me of the situation in the Chinese world with the many Chinese languages spoken all over the place. I have nearly zero chance of being able to freely visit Iran in the coming few years, so that’s a bummer.

Talking of Farsi, I had a language learning-related dream this weekend, the first one in a very long time. There was no story or anything: it was just me, spelling words in Persian in bright white letters over a black background. The funny thing is that in my dream at least, I was quite a good speller.

We shall see if I’ll end up just dipping my toes or taking the plunge with Persian!


- No power, no gas, no security. Have we gone back to the Middle Ages?

(on the mammoth: gangs)
2 x

User avatar
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 7283

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby iguanamon » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:37 pm

Purangi wrote:Good news: I finally finished both Haitian Creole DLI and Ann Bay Lodyans! I highly recommend both resources, although it's really a shame that the HC DLI audio is of such bad quality. Let's hope a Good Samaritan will find a better version of the audio and put it online. Ann Bay Lodyans is an incredible collection of fables, jokes and short stories from Haitian folklore, full of interesting wisdom...

Mezanmi! M dwe fè konpliman pou w! Ou fin ak travay la avè DLI ak "Ann Bay Lodyans". Se mèveye, wi! Kounyea, ou mèt egzaminen liv yo nan Inivèsite Kansas Scholar Works. Mwen te renmen anpil liv ekri pa Jan Wobè Kadè rele Restavèk: yon ti esklav ann Ayiti tounen yon Ameriken ki pwofesè lekòl. Se yon liv ki li ekri sou pwòp kont li sou lavi li. Se yon istwa wòdpòte! Antwòt, m te apran anpil lè m te li Woben Lakwa (Robinson Crusoe). Li te premye liv m te li an kreyòl. Premye chapit la, Woben Lakwa an pdf. M ka preskri osi "Fòs Lawouze" pa Jak Woumen ki se yon adaptasyon "Gouveneurs de la Rosée" (Jacques Roumain). Se Mod Etelou (Maude Heurtelou) ki vini ak adaptasyon liv sa a. Se yon istwa ki pa difisil li, men gen anpil vokabilè sou lavi kotidyen.

Your log brings back so many memories of when I was studying Kreyòl. I, too, wish someone could find a better copy of DLI HC Basic audio. It is such a well done and thorough course. It's a shame that the audio is mostly unusable. Ironically, it's one of the latter, more modern, courses of the DLI releases. "Ann Bay Lodyans" would also benefit learners immensely by having audio to accompany the stories. Your progress with Kreyòl has been rapid. I always thought that a native French-speaker would do well with learning the language. Again, congratulations. Ayibobo!
2 x

White Belt
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: French, English, Mandarin, Russian
x 103

Re: Purangi's Haitian Creole et al.

Postby Purangi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:53 pm

iguanamon wrote:
Purangi wrote:Good news: I finally finished both Haitian Creole DLI and Ann Bay Lodyans! I highly recommend both resources, although it's really a shame that the HC DLI audio is of such bad quality. Let's hope a Good Samaritan will find a better version of the audio and put it online. Ann Bay Lodyans is an incredible collection of fables, jokes and short stories from Haitian folklore, full of interesting wisdom...

Mezanmi! M dwe fè konpliman pou w! Ou fin ak travay la avè DLI ak "Ann Bay Lodyans". Se mèveye, wi! Kounyea, ou mèt egzaminen liv yo nan Inivèsite Kansas Scholar Works. Mwen te renmen anpil liv ekri pa Jan Wobè Kadè rele Restavèk: yon ti esklav ann Ayiti tounen yon Ameriken ki pwofesè lekòl. Se yon liv ki li ekri sou pwòp kont li sou lavi li. Se yon istwa wòdpòte! Antwòt, m te apran anpil lè m te li Woben Lakwa (Robinson Crusoe). Li te premye liv m te li an kreyòl. Premye chapit la, Woben Lakwa an pdf. M ka preskri osi "Fòs Lawouze" pa Jak Woumen ki se yon adaptasyon "Gouveneurs de la Rosée" (Jacques Roumain). Se Mod Etelou (Maude Heurtelou) ki vini ak adaptasyon liv sa a. Se yon istwa ki pa difisil li, men gen anpil vokabilè sou lavi kotidyen.

Your log brings back so many memories of when I was studying Kreyòl. I, too, wish someone could find a better copy of DLI HC Basic audio. It is such a well done and thorough course. It's a shame that the audio is mostly unusable. Ironically, it's one of the latter, more modern, courses of the DLI releases. "Ann Bay Lodyans" would also benefit learners immensely by having audio to accompany the stories. Your progress with Kreyòl has been rapid. I always thought that a native French-speaker would do well with learning the language. Again, congratulations. Ayibobo!

Mwen vle di ou mèsi anpil pou èd ou te ban mwen an, mezanmi! Wi se vre, mwen te pran anpil plezi lè mwen te ap li blog pa'w sou lang kreyòl la, isit la nan forum, epi blog sa a te ban mwen lide epi fòs pou kòmanse aprann kreyòl. M'ap espere tout moun ki ap li blog pa'm ta gen menm kalite plezi tankou lè mwen te ap li blog pa'w. Epi kite mwen di ou, mwen ta renmen pense ke gen kèk moun isit la nan forum ki yo kòmanse fè etid lang kreyòl tou, tankou ou epi tankou mwen.

Se pa de liv ki gen nan sit Inivèsite Kansas sa a, wi papa! Gras Bondye, mwen te jwenn anpil liv enteresan sou tout kalite sijè. Wi se vre, kounye a, mwen pa gen pèsonn pou pale kreyòl ak mwen, men mwen pa lage epi pa kanpe. Mwen pral kontinuye etid pa'm, sitou mwen pral fè lekti liv nan kreyòl. Lè mwen pral Ayiti Toma toutbonvrè, mwen pral mete efò pa'm sou lang pale, pou mwen kap vwayaje Ayiti epi pale kreyòl natifnatal.

Mezanmi, mwen pral fè yon ti kabicha kounye a! Mwen kite ou ak yon bel chante gwoup Barikad Crew "Tann Jou Paw"! Chante sa a ban'w anpil enèji pou fè fas tout kalite pwoblèm yo!

Foli pouvwa fè moun chanje, bliye pwomès yo te konn fè (Yon bann san konsyans)
Foli boujwa fè moun panse poul rich li dwe yon atoufè (Yo pèdi bon sans)
Yon bout viza fè moun danse, ranpe devan anbasadè (Sa se inyorans)
Foli sipèsta fè moun poste tout vye foto pou yo fè wè (Sa se endesans)

Fò w tann jou pa’w, Tann jou pa’w
M’ te tann jou pa’m, Tann jou pa’w

Gen yon jou Pouw pran plezi
Gen yon jou Pouw reflechi
Gen yon jou pouw soufri
Gen yon jou Pouw rejwi
Gen yon jou ou ka pèdi
Gen yon jou Pou w reyisi
Gen yon jou siw tonbe
Gen yon jou wap leve
1 x

Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest