Modern Greek Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
bookstorecowboy
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Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby bookstorecowboy » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:09 am

I'm about to quit Pimsleur, I think. I'm on level 2 and the inconsistencies between it and both LT and the online translators are confusing the heck out of me. Latest: For "I have seen," LT has έχω δει, as do Bing and Google Translate. But Pimsleur has έχω να δω. I'm assuming this is just a variant, but this along with the continuing insistence on using the formal "you" is just too much. Pimsleur even tells you to use formal "you" with your friends.
But: my confusion about pronouns and possessives lingers. I don't think LT is clear (it isn't clear to me, anyway), and Pimsleur doesn't help at all.
I did get a copy of Greek Today, so I may go through LT from lesson 30 or so and use GT as a more rigorous guide.
GT seems more comprehensive and notes exceptions and usages in tables.
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Neurotip
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Re: Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby Neurotip » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:56 pm

bookstorecowboy wrote:I'm about to quit Pimsleur, I think. I'm on level 2 and the inconsistencies between it and both LT and the online translators are confusing the heck out of me. Latest: For "I have seen," LT has έχω δει, as do Bing and Google Translate. But Pimsleur has έχω να δω. I'm assuming this is just a variant...

That is weird. I've never heard 'έχω να δω' for 'I have seen' - I wonder if it's an error. WordReference.com says that 'έχω να κάνω κατι' means 'I have to do something', pretty much as in English. There's a page on the WR forum which says that 'έχω να τον δω πολύ καιρό' means 'I haven't seen him for a long time', although I think this isn't really 'έχω να' but rather an alternative word order for 'έχω πολύ καιρό να τον δω'.
Maybe you should post a question on the WR forum? -- or maybe a Greek speaker more competent than myself might give their opinion here?
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Thala
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Re: Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby Thala » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:18 am

Neurotip wrote:
bookstorecowboy wrote:I'm about to quit Pimsleur, I think. I'm on level 2 and the inconsistencies between it and both LT and the online translators are confusing the heck out of me. Latest: For "I have seen," LT has έχω δει, as do Bing and Google Translate. But Pimsleur has έχω να δω. I'm assuming this is just a variant...

That is weird. I've never heard 'έχω να δω' for 'I have seen' - I wonder if it's an error. WordReference.com says that 'έχω να κάνω κατι' means 'I have to do something', pretty much as in English. There's a page on the WR forum which says that 'έχω να τον δω πολύ καιρό' means 'I haven't seen him for a long time', although I think this isn't really 'έχω να' but rather an alternative word order for 'έχω πολύ καιρό να τον δω'.
Maybe you should post a question on the WR forum? -- or maybe a Greek speaker more competent than myself might give their opinion here?


I thought "I have to" was translated as πρέπει να κάνω.
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Language Transfer Greek: 120 / 120 (120/120 lessons)
Hellenic American Union Podcasts: 4 / 81 (4/81 lessons)
Greek Books: 2 / 10 (2/10 books)

Pimsleur Russian: 4 / 150 (4/150 lessons)

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Neurotip
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Re: Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby Neurotip » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:49 pm

Thala wrote:I thought "I have to" was translated as πρέπει να κάνω.

That's my understanding too. I don't actually recall coming across έχω να κάνω in the field, so to speak, while πρέπει να... is of course extremely common. I wonder if έχω να... has more of a sense of duty about it, rather than necessity?
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Thala
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Re: Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby Thala » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:00 pm

Neurotip wrote:
Thala wrote:I thought "I have to" was translated as πρέπει να κάνω.

That's my understanding too. I don't actually recall coming across έχω να κάνω in the field, so to speak, while πρέπει να... is of course extremely common. I wonder if έχω να... has more of a sense of duty about it, rather than necessity?


Hmm, thinking about whether we'd use something like that in Bulgarian. We can use "имам да правя" like "I have to do", though it's not too common and it gives the feeling that it's something to do in the future rather than something you have to do. It might be similar in Greek
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Language Transfer Greek: 120 / 120 (120/120 lessons)
Hellenic American Union Podcasts: 4 / 81 (4/81 lessons)
Greek Books: 2 / 10 (2/10 books)

Pimsleur Russian: 4 / 150 (4/150 lessons)

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Thala
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Re: Modern Greek Study Group

Postby Thala » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Finished Language Transfer Greek today! I feel accomplished :D Now, I'm moving on to iTalki & books. By the way, I really encourage people to donate to the LT Patreon if you have the option. I've been paying attention to it and it's actually rising in supporters, probably because more people are at home now. Mihalis really deserves more recognition for his work :)
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Language Transfer Greek: 120 / 120 (120/120 lessons)
Hellenic American Union Podcasts: 4 / 81 (4/81 lessons)
Greek Books: 2 / 10 (2/10 books)

Pimsleur Russian: 4 / 150 (4/150 lessons)

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Neurotip
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Re: Giving up on Pimsleur 2?

Postby Neurotip » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:53 pm

Thala wrote:
Neurotip wrote:
Thala wrote:I thought "I have to" was translated as πρέπει να κάνω.

That's my understanding too. I don't actually recall coming across έχω να κάνω in the field, so to speak, while πρέπει να... is of course extremely common. I wonder if έχω να... has more of a sense of duty about it, rather than necessity?


Hmm, thinking about whether we'd use something like that in Bulgarian. We can use "имам да правя" like "I have to do", though it's not too common and it gives the feeling that it's something to do in the future rather than something you have to do. It might be similar in Greek

Just Googled 'έχω να κάνω'. Of the first ten different results (many are duplicates), about half are 'It's X length of time since I did Y'. Three are of the form 'I have something that I need to do':
έχω να κάνω μια ερώτηση που προέχει = 'I have one overriding question to ask'
Έχω να κάνω πάρα πολλά. = 'I have lots to do.'
Εν τω μεταξύ έχω να κάνω 100 πράγματα = 'In the meantime I have 100 things to do'
The only one that appears to be a genuine example of 'έχω να X' is a song lyric: Έχω να μάθω / έχω να ζήσω / έχω να χάσω και να κερδίσω = 'I have to learn / I have to live / I have to lose and win', but song lyrics are always difficult to interpret as examples of normal grammar.

I might email one of my Greek acquaintances for their opinion.
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embici
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Re: Modern Greek Study Group

Postby embici » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:52 pm

In case anyone is interested, there is a new website that lists resources for learning Geek. It's goal, as stated on the site is "to support Greek language education, to maintain Canada's linguistic & cultural resources and to foster intercultural awareness."

https://greeklanguage.ca/en/
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Thala
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Re: Modern Greek Study Group

Postby Thala » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:27 pm

embici wrote:In case anyone is interested, there is a new website that lists resources for learning Geek. It's goal, as stated on the site is "to support Greek language education, to maintain Canada's linguistic & cultural resources and to foster intercultural awareness."

https://greeklanguage.ca/en/


This is a cool resource, thanks!
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Language Transfer Greek: 120 / 120 (120/120 lessons)
Hellenic American Union Podcasts: 4 / 81 (4/81 lessons)
Greek Books: 2 / 10 (2/10 books)

Pimsleur Russian: 4 / 150 (4/150 lessons)

Speakeasy
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Re: Modern Greek Study Group

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:54 pm

Please excuse the interruption. It has been year since I created the Modern Greek Resources file and, given the passage of time, I felt that it was due for revision. I have made superficial changes to the format, bringing it in line with similar lists that I have published. In addition, I conducted as complete a review of the resources as I am capable and inserted new some ones. Finally, I made an attempt at reducing the editorializing to just a few short comments where I thought that these might be of some help to a novice visitor to the list.
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