Under-cooked Korean

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
qeadz
Green Belt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:37 pm
Languages: English (N), Korean (~A2)
x 324

Under-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:01 pm

The sequel to my old Slow-cooked Korean (https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3436&hilit=slow+cooked).

I don't know if I'll keep a new language log going. I stopped the last one because I felt like it had run its course - I tracked my progress, solicited feedback on ways to improve and ended up in a position where I was not wanting to do any more than my routine entailed. I had resigned myself to accepting that Korean *is* hard. Within the bounds of how much attention I was prepared to give language learning each day, I felt I had already made the biggest efficiency gains.

Whether this is true or not is always up for debate, but somewhat beside the point.

In the past 8 months or so my Korean has fallen by the wayside. It was a gradual descent. But to put it plainly: I became tired. Tired of *learning*. Tired of the repetition.

So I find myself now looking back over the past 3 months and noticing I've pretty much only done my daily Anki drills and that is all. One of the nice things about SRS is that it has tremendous staying power. I do it every day because once a backlog of cards accumulates, it all comes crashing down like a flimsy house of cards :)

This language log then has a different purpose: Whereas Slow-cooked Korean was a lot about trying to find out HOW to learn the language - always doubting that I could learn it - this log has a different aim. This language log is a means to add some more fuel to the smoldering embers in the hopes of reigniting the enthusiasm for learning.

It seems prudent to do a quick not-very-measured stock take of where I am at now:

VOCABULARY

Thanks to Anki/SRS, I continue to build my vocab at a steady pace. However, this ship is destined to sink eventually.

My 'mature' card accuracy continues to decline ever-so-slowly. Over the last month, it sits at about 86%. It fluctuates much more than it used to with a good day seeing 90+ and a very bad day dipping to under 70%. Of course I've been doing this for a while now so the number of mature cards I am reviewing each day is up from what it used to be.

I'm not really that worried about it though. Probably a year from now that percentage will be low enough that it becomes a concern - I'll likely start to accumulate suspended&buried cards at a much higher rate.

Some reasonable steps I can take to stem this include: reading a lot (basically increasing exposure to words outside of SRS), and building more mental connections for the words (I hate to say it, but studying roots and origins where appropriate). Using the words (speaking or writing) may well help them stick too.

GRAMMAR

This has completely fallen by the wayside. Having done the HTSK series, I completely stopped learning. In fact, outside of grammar decks, I have stopped revising Korean grammar too.

I must make a concerted effort in this department!

READING

As mentioned in the first part of this post, my reading has dropped to zero.

However it remains the strongest area for me and its actually not as mentally taxing as it used to be. I'm quite comfortable with Hangeul. My vocab is greatly improved from a couple years ago. I understand enough grammar to work through lower-intermediate level articles without much problem.

So while there are many texts which would be a significant mental strain, its not every text. I can actually read some things and, *gasp*, enjoy the experience of reading them!

WRITING

This stopped... oh... more than 8 months ago. It wouldnt surprise me if its been a year.

I'm excluding the occasional text message to my wife in Korean here. I mean writing something thats paragraph length on any topic.

SPEAKING

I use bits of Korean fairly frequently at home with my son. However I wouldn't say my speaking skills have changed at all. Largely I'm telling him simple and direct things. eg: "Eat your food first, then you can have some peach"

This is always the hardest area because it generally requires another party. Someone who is fluent and very patient. I know quite a number of Koreans. You'd think it'd be simple (and free!) for me. But alas *all* the ones I know only have one of those qualities... :)

LISTENING

Even though I have stopped listening to Korean on a daily basis (I used to listen to Iyagi's on the way to work, but now I do my Anki while walking), my listening is improving!

I understand more of what my wife says on the phone to her sister/friends/parents. However there is still a very steep drop-off as rate of speech increases. Even for every-day casual talk, it can be simply too fast for me to follow.

I watched some Korean stuff on Netflix. Without subtitles, I understand very little of it still. But actually with English subtitles it helps a lot. I find that there is a lot more where I actually DO understand the sentence in Korean... but after I've had a little hint from the English translation. It also amuses me how often the translations are off from the Korean.

...

And so... going forward. Hmmm. Well this log is to get that enthusiasm back. Part of it is to bring back my old study routine. It's going to be tough. But I'm not letting this lie after coming this far!

"Oh I poured 1000 hours into learning Korean but then I just stopped and have forgotten it" <-- me in the future? No thanks!
11 x

AndyMeg
Green Belt
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7431
x 589

Re: Under-cooked Korean

Postby AndyMeg » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:55 pm

It's great to see you back! :D

I think that, maybe, these books could be a good help for a general grammar and language's use review:

- Using Korean: A Guide to Contemporary Usage
- Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar
- "Essential Korean Grammar: Your Essential Guide to Speaking and Writing Korean Fluently!" by Laura Kingdon

화이팅!!!
0 x
: 1461 / 18000 korean videos without subs (minutes) :
: 60 / 447 Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar (pages) :
: 110 / 194 맞춤 스페인어권 한국어-1 (pages) :

qeadz
Green Belt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:37 pm
Languages: English (N), Korean (~A2)
x 324

Re: Under-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:36 pm

I have Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar. Its a great reference. I was using HTSK as my guide and introduction with the K:ACG and TTMIK acting as support resources.

This approach only gets one to lower-intermediate (more or less) as I believe thats where HTSK leaves off.

Right now I am in need of some revision on this front and I might do so by following TTMIK's lessons. I have no idea how far they go, but I'd guess also to lower-intermediate level. I'm sure HTSK and TTMIK will differ slightly in which grammar points they consider to fall within the beginner->intermediate range.

Right now though I am just getting the main activities back into my daily rotation.

Yesterday I did my vocab SRS, grammar SRS and a translation deck I made last year. I also read TTMIK's Olympics Iyagi (I had not read it before). No listening (outside of the grammar SRS deck), but its getting going again.

Next week I am going camping though. Even though it sounds like time will be plentiful for doing Korean, in reality its the opposite. So I'm getting back into a routine only to disrupt it again next week :/
1 x

qeadz
Green Belt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:37 pm
Languages: English (N), Korean (~A2)
x 324

Re: Under-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:50 pm

It is tough getting back into some of the activities! I never did stop the vocab drills, but now I am re-introducing the grammar and translation bits. I'm also starting to listen and read using LingQ again.

I'm not fully back on the old bandwagon, but its starting to feel more like a study routine again.

My day as current:

- Anki vocab on the way to work
- Anki grammar and translation during lunch
- Listen to Korean on the way home
- Some reading before bed

And then I just throw in some extra Anki bits on the vocab side since my daily reviews can't be completed entirely on my walk to work.

Two key things which are still missing include output (speaking/writing) and grammar study. The anki deck is great, but its a review deck. I need to be covering some new ground and adding to both the grammar deck and translation deck.

As you can tell I am starting to make much more use of Anki. I think it provides a reasonably effective use of my time via its SRS. There is the tradeoff that the goal of SRS is, broadly speaking, to do the least amount of total work required per item to have it committed to memory. It's not about drilling something until you have it on speed-dial, so to speak :)

Anki/SRS as a learning tool (the vocab deck), I will get to a point (and am at a point I believe) where I know a lot of words well enough to know their meanings given a second or two of thought. Thats simply not good enough for a comfortable reading experience nor adequate for listening.

Anki/SRS as a revision tool (the grammar deck), it serves to keep reminding me of the work I have covered. The great job Evita has done with providing audio clips also helps keep my ability to understand the grammar points when used in a spoken sentence. Still, the tool is not going to get me to that point where I happily consume Korean content without issue.

So I am under no illusions that a lot of work outside of the Anki drills is also required. However I am starting to do a fair bit of Anki with 3 decks and a few hundred cards each day. Its simple a way to ensure I can keep pushing on to new ground by managing how much time I am spending revising the old stuff.

That being said, I'd like to reach an even split in my day. Half my total time is spent in Anki, with the other half being comprised of activities with Korean in fuller context. This could be reading, listening, speaking, writing - just anything which involves more than one disparate sentence at a time.

I think this is kind of what I had going many months ago. However my Anki revisions are up from then, and I have 3 decks now. So I might need to adjust the rate of new cards so that my time spent on Anki revisions falls around the 30 minute mark. I have no idea how much time I am actually spending per day on Anki. Perhaps tomorrow I'll do all my revisions back to back and see how long I am spending per deck!
1 x

qeadz
Green Belt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:37 pm
Languages: English (N), Korean (~A2)
x 324

Re: Under-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Today I head off to go camping with the family. It's going to be a fantastic end-of-summer break. Also in the weather is that Vancouver Island isn't blanketed with smoke from the wild-fires as most of BC is. So that will be a welcome change!

Of course this means my recent return to proper Korean study will be interrupted for a few days. I will make effort to do my Anki. If that builds up, it's discouraging to deal with the backlog of cards.

Most of my study routine is back on track now. I am doing all the main activities (bar actually conversing in Korean).

Just recently I was involved in a short debate on reddit regarding some Korean grammar. I wont link it here, or bother to rehash discussion. Rather, with my return to studying grammar again, I've discovered I'd really like more than what LingQ offers. The little discussion on Reddit kind of resurfaced that want for more investigative tools than LingQ offers.

Whenever I read about some grammatical point, it's not just about reading the provided examples. While they help, they're always carefully selected to fit the description provided in the study or reference guide. It's also not about reading descriptions from multiple guides, although this really does help having multiple explanations.

Its about using those descriptions to understand what is being said in real-world usage.

So I do like to assemble a number of examples from texts I have so I can map the descriptions of the grammar to the intended meaning in the text. I'd like to be able to do this more efficiently and with less effort... but right now making notes while reading in LingQ is my best option. I can copy the sentence or tag it as a LingQ. However I lack the ability to easily jump back to the specific location it was used to grab the surrounding context.

My understanding of Korean grammar has changed a fair bit since I started focusing on the context in which it is being used in more authentic Korean.

Its amazing when I reflect back on my language learning journey. I started off by really distancing myself from 'study', but after trying to fix up my shortcomings, I find myself pretty much doing exactly what I set out not to do.

I'm only a short hop from cloze deletions and grammar drills :/
2 x

AndyMeg
Green Belt
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7431
x 589

Re: Under-cooked Korean

Postby AndyMeg » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:18 pm

qeadz wrote:So I do like to assemble a number of examples from texts I have so I can map the descriptions of the grammar to the intended meaning in the text. I'd like to be able to do this more efficiently and with less effort... but right now making notes while reading in LingQ is my best option. I can copy the sentence or tag it as a LingQ. However I lack the ability to easily jump back to the specific location it was used to grab the surrounding context.

If you have the text in .doc or .docx format, for example, you can look for things using Word's search options. And I think other word processors may have a similar function too. I've done this with some k-drama transcripts before. It's really useful! ;)
0 x
: 1461 / 18000 korean videos without subs (minutes) :
: 60 / 447 Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar (pages) :
: 110 / 194 맞춤 스페인어권 한국어-1 (pages) :


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest