Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

Postby Ezra » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:47 pm

Hello!

I decided to start a language log in this wonderful, language learners-friendly place :D.

Some time ago I decided to learn a number of classical languages, so currently I study Classical Hebrew and Latin. At first I went for Ancient Greek but lately decided to learn Latin first.

For Hebrew, I read Tanakh with the help of "Dictionnaire Hebrew-Français" par M. N. Ph. Sander, and English translation of Tanakh, which I use as parallel text to check whether I got original text right or as alternative to dictionary.

For Latin I go through Adler's Ollendorfian "Practical Grammar" and Lingua Latina per Se Illustrata (first volume "Familia Romana").

I also learn Japanese since February 2016th. I always wanted to learn this language even though it is absolutely non-practical, alas, when I was young and, supposedly, full of energy - I failed to do that. So this is a challenge of I-the-adult to me-the-youth.

Let's start from some statistics for June:

  • Japanese's share is about 50 hours. That's quite a lot, as I have about 100-120 hours available for "preferred" activities (marked in my time-management application by green color). It was mostly playing of Danganronpa (40 hours).
  • Latin - 27.5 hours. Adler & Familia Romana.
  • Hebrew - 20 hours.
The plan for the next month is to cut down Japanese to 25-30 hours and redistribute freed hours between Latin and Hebrew.
Last edited by Ezra on Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
7 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

indeclinable
Yellow Belt
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:57 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (C2), German (C1), Latin (C1), French (B2), Ancient Greek (B1), Italian (A2).

Want to study: Japanese & Russian
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8803
x 154

Re: Ezrae Via Liguarum Classicarum

Postby indeclinable » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:27 pm

Salve Ezra, gaudeo quod nunc discis linguam Latinam. Si necesse fuerit ego libenter afferam tibi auxilium.

Suadeo tamen ut emittas illam grammaticam a Adler factam, non est res utilis, immo puto eam esse omnino eluendam. Si vis exercere grammaticam Latinam emas librum c.n. Latīne discō seu Enchīridion discipulōrum.

Plura de his libris potes invenire in hac taenia:






Hi there! Glad to see more Latin & Greek students. I once made a list of resources (an updated version is also available here) hopefully they will be of some use to you.

And like I said, I really don't recommend Adler's Grammar.
7 x
Omnis lingua usu potius discitur quam praeceptis, id est audiendo, legendo, relegendo, imitationem manu et lingua temptando quam creberrime. – Iohannes Amos Comenius

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

Re: Ezrae Via Liguarum Classicarum

Postby Ezra » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:38 pm

Weekly statistics

Latin - 9 hours. Mainly Adler, though I dropped active productions as it started to consume way too much time. Currently I use this textbook as a "grammatical reader". I do not want to drop it as I am already half-through the book, so I will try to finish it as fast as possible.

Hebrew - 6 ½ hours. I've read 8 chapters of Leviticus this week.

Japanese - 7 ½ hours. Playing Danganronpa. At first (a year and half ago) it was very-very-very slow going, but now it is just slow going and during prolonged sessions it is speeding up to medium going.

24 hours in total. Quite good.
Last edited by Ezra on Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

Re: Ezrae Via Linguarum Classicarum

Postby Ezra » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:45 pm

Weekly Statistics

Latin - 5 ½ h. Mainly, reading of Adler's grammar.

Hebrew - 8 h. I've read 10 chapters of Leviticus this week.

Japanese - 6 h. Danganronpa.

Total - 19.5 hours. A little weaker than the week before.
0 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

13.08.18-26.08.18 Update

Postby Ezra » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:00 pm

Japanese

I finished fourth chapter of "Danganronpa". Japanese got the biggest share of language learning: 7 hours last week and 12 hours this one. I did not intend to spend much time on playing Danganronpa this week-end, but then I was overwhelmed by desire to make through the chapter (and I made through). It does seem my Japanese gets better. On the other hand, it does seem to get better slower than my other languages.

Latin

In total Latin got 16 hours. I continue to plough through Adler's grammar. Actually I like it: even though example and exercise sentences are somewhat dull and uninspiring, Adler explains grammar quite well and reading exercises along with answers strengthens understanding of the concepts explained. I made to Lesson LII (not yet finished). The plan is to finish the whole book within next month, but we will see is it really possible.

Hebrew

Six chapters of Numbers were read. Not bad, and text seems to be easier (though it might be me getting better in Hebrew), but in total only 9 hours was spent on Hebrew these two weeks. So the plan is to increase time for Hebrew at least for a next week at the expense of Japanese: as I finished a chapter, I can allow myself to take a break from kanji-hunting :) .
0 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

MattNeilsen
Orange Belt
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:32 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Languages: English (N)
Hebrew (studying - beginner)
Spanish (passive, beginner)
Mandarin (mostly forgotten)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8869
x 183

Re: 13.08.18-26.08.18 Update

Postby MattNeilsen » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:11 pm

Ezra wrote:
Hebrew

Six chapters of Numbers were read. Not bad, and text seems to be easier (though it might be me getting better in Hebrew), but in total only 9 hours was spent on Hebrew these two weeks. So the plan is to increase time for Hebrew at least for a next week at the expense of Japanese: as I finished a chapter, I can allow myself to take a break from kanji-hunting :) .


Glad to see another Hebrew learner (though I'm learning Modern Hebrew)! Learning to read right-to-left has been a fun challenge, not to mention a new script.

Did you use any courses/resources to build a foundation before you started working through the Tanakh?
0 x
Hebrew
Pimsleur Level 2: 21 / 30
FSI : 3 / 40
Clozemaster 101-500 Most Common Words: 1600 / 4825
Srugim Season 3: 1 / 15
1100 hours of study/input : 160 / 1100

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

Some thoughts on learning Biblical Hebrew

Postby Ezra » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:35 am

MattNeilsen wrote:Did you use any courses/resources to build a foundation before you started working through the Tanakh?

I did :).

Comparing to Latin/Ancient Greek, there are very little learning materials for Biblical Hebrew. Yes, there are enough grammars and grammar-heavy textbooks, but there are next to none readers, while in Latin it is possible to build a smooth progression from LLPSI and readers for beginners up to easy unadapted text. In Biblical Hebrew one is expected to go full hardcore: learn the script, read a grammar-heavy textbook, make some grammar-translation exercises and then delve straight to Tanakh. If, for some reason unknown, reading is hard, use such hardcore techniques like "pre-reading" when one is supposed to mark a grammar form of every word in a chapter to be translated before actual reading.

I like grammar, but this route is too hardcore for me. For example, I read Adler's Latin grammar, but its strong point is that every grammar point is illustrated with dozens upon dozens simple sentences. So to counter this problem with lack of materials for Biblical Hebrew, I decided to make a detour and finish a course for Modern Hebrew first. I used Assimil and a textbook intended for Russian-speaking learner.

It took me about eight months. Second step was reading a textbook on Biblical Hebrew (it was "A New Grammar of Biblical Hebrew" by Frederic Putnam). Then I started to read Tanakh employing the parallel-text technique. It is not necessary for languages with abundance of materials for language learners (f.e. I did not use it for Japanese) but here it is very useful. At first I would check every verse against translation, often not having understood what is going on even after looking up all the words. Currently I only use it in about 1 of 3 verses mostly as a quick dictionary.
3 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

MattNeilsen
Orange Belt
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:32 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Languages: English (N)
Hebrew (studying - beginner)
Spanish (passive, beginner)
Mandarin (mostly forgotten)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8869
x 183

Re: Some thoughts on learning Biblical Hebrew

Postby MattNeilsen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:49 am

Ezra wrote:
MattNeilsen wrote:Did you use any courses/resources to build a foundation before you started working through the Tanakh?

I did :).

Comparing to Latin/Ancient Greek, there are very little learning materials for Biblical Hebrew. Yes, there are enough grammars and grammar-heavy textbooks, but there are next to none readers, while in Latin it is possible to build a smooth progression from LLPSI and readers for beginners up to easy unadapted text. In Biblical Hebrew one is expected to go full hardcore: learn the script, read a grammar-heavy textbook, make some grammar-translation exercises and then delve straight to Tanakh. If, for some reason unknown, reading is hard, use such hardcore techniques like "pre-reading" when you has to mark a grammar form of every word in a chapter to be translated before actual reading.

I like grammar, but this route is too hardcore for me. For example, I read Adler's Latin grammar, but its strong point is that every grammar point is illustrated with dozens upon dozens simple sentences. So to counter this problem with lack of materials for Biblical Hebrew, I decided to make a detour and finish a course for Modern Hebrew first. I used Assimil and a textbook intended for Russian-speaking learner.

It took me about eight months. Second step was reading a textbook on Biblical Hebrew (it was "A New Grammar of Biblical Hebrew" by Frederic Putnam). Then I started to read Tanakh employing the parallel-text technique. It is not necessary for languages with abundance of materials for language learners (f.e. I did not use it for Japanese) but here it is very useful. At first I would check every verse against translation, often not having understood what is going on even after looking up all the words. Currently I only use it in about 1 of 3 verses mostly as a quick dictionary.


That makes sense - thanks for the background information. I thought about purchasing the Assimil Hebrew course, but my fiance has access to Pimsleur Hebrew 1-3 so I decided to use that instead and combine it with Duolingo and Anki. I recently switched all my Anki cards to require me to type in the answer in Hebrew (I do all my reviews in the iPhone app) and that's been helping a lot with visualizing the language. It's slow-going, though - especially compared to my previous study of Spanish!
0 x
Hebrew
Pimsleur Level 2: 21 / 30
FSI : 3 / 40
Clozemaster 101-500 Most Common Words: 1600 / 4825
Srugim Season 3: 1 / 15
1100 hours of study/input : 160 / 1100

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

Re: Monthly Stats for August

Postby Ezra » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:29 pm

Ok, so August has passed (almost), and it is time to check how much was done.

Japanese - 33 hours. A little more than I planned. All this time was spend on playing «Danganronpa».

Latin - 31 hours. Good. From time to time I check my progress by trying to read a sentence from this or that old Latin book. Still a long way to go but there are certainly improvements. And now I know "Libri Tres" does NOT mean "Third book" :D.

Hebrew - 29 hours. Not bad as well. I tried to read 100+ (minimum 100 but until the end of a chapter) verses for a couple of days. Turned out, it takes me 2-2.5 hours to read that much.

Italian - ¾ hour. What is this? Wanderlust? Well, not really. Before I start learning Ancient Greek, I would like to acquire a reading ability in Italian and (optionally) in German. Italian is needed for the Italian edition of Athenaze, which is the textbook similar to LLPSI. Also, it seems Günther Zuntz’s «Griechischer Lehrgang» is pretty good but it is in German. As both languages are on my language learning list, I've decided to investigate would it be acceptable to delay Ancient Greek and obtain reading abilities in aforementioned languages. Yesterday I devoted some time to Italian.

I have made a pleasant, albeit expected discovery: Italian, it seems, will be quite easy. I've open a «Grammatica in contesto», which is a grammar book on Italian for intermediate learners of Italian, and written in Italian as well. It turned out, I could read it even though I had never learned this language until yesterday! :) Probably, French & Spanish & Latin do give a significant advantage. For a starter's course Assimil's one was chosen, and of which I made one lesson. Phonetics does not seem to present any significant difficulties, and my meager knowledge of Latin allowed me to easily accept the way Italian nouns are pluralized.

German, on the other hand, does not look particularly familiar :?.

In any case, I will try to squeeze some time for Italian, as it seems to be a low-hanging fruit.
3 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000

Ezra
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: Russian (N), English (C1),
In use: French, Spanish, Italian
Studying: Latin, Classical Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Japanese, German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=8792
x 278

27.08.18-02.08.18 Weekly Update

Postby Ezra » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:54 pm

Japanese - 3 hours. Low-intensive Danganronpa playing. I also played a little some early save of the game to check: is there any progress in my ability to read Japanese? Well, yes, there is. Back then (a year and a half ago) it was intensive reading, way too intensive. Now it is tolerable.

Hebrew - 9 hours. Finished 19th chapter of Numbers. I also checked a similar thing with Hebrew as with Japanese. I have some downloaded mediaeval Hebrew books, against which I check my Hebrew ability from time to time. it is getting better. The parallel-text method does work. There are still about 1300 pages of Tanakh ahead, after that I will try some of these books.

Latin - 10 hours. I've read few lessons of Adler and re-read two chapters (XV & XVI) of Familia Romana.

Italian - 1 hour. Three lessons of Assimil.

Spanish - 1 hour. I needed a little of mindless rest and decided to play something from my Steam Library, and decided to play it in Spanish. Somehow my Spanish got better as well, even though I have not used it in a while. Probably due to Latin.
2 x
1000 pages in Latin: 523 / 1000
1000 pages in Hebrew: 891 / 1000
5000 pages in Italian: 509 / 5000


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