Portuguese questions

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Gemuse
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Portuguese questions

Postby Gemuse » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:39 am

I have seen the construction estar + a + infinitive of verb in my texts, but I have not seen an explanation of it in my grammar books. What does this construction mean?

For example:
...que está a abrir.
Duas firmas do Porto estão a ser compradas por um grupo holandês.

For the second sentence, since it's in passive voice, the grammar rules would seem to indicate it should be written as:
Duas firmas do Porto são compradas por um grupo holandês.
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby smallwhite » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:48 am

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/estar#Portuguese

Wiktionary - estar

3. (auxiliary with a and a verb in the infinitive (Portugal) or with the gerund (Brazil)) to be (forms the progressive aspect)

Ela está cantando? / Ela está a cantar? ― Is she singing?
Estavam trabalhando muito. ― They were working a lot.
Estávamos a ler muito. ― We had been reading a lot.
Estaremos a ler livros. ― We will be reading books.
Last edited by smallwhite on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby tastyonions » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:04 am

Conjugated estar + a + infinitive is the Iberian Portuguese way of expressing present progressive (“is opening” in the first example). The Brazilian way is conjugated estar + present participle (“está abrindo”). In the second example, it’s the “currently happening” state of the purchase that is being indicated.
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:18 am

Gemuse wrote:Duas firmas do Porto estão a ser compradas por um grupo holandês.

For the second sentence, since it's in passive voice, the grammar rules would seem to indicate it should be written as:
Duas firmas do Porto são compradas por um grupo holandês.


Actually, both are passive:
estão a ser compradas - are being bought
são compradas - are bought
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rfnsoares
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby rfnsoares » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:47 pm

Gemuse wrote:I have seen the construction estar + a + infinitive of verb in my texts, but I have not seen an explanation of it in my grammar books. What does this construction mean?

For example:
...que está a abrir.
Duas firmas do Porto estão a ser compradas por um grupo holandês.

For the second sentence, since it's in passive voice, the grammar rules would seem to indicate it should be written as:
Duas firmas do Porto são compradas por um grupo holandês.


All explanations are correct (tastyonions, jeff_lindqvist, smallwhite). It's passive voice and it represents the "process" not the "result".

"Duas firmas do Porto estão a ser compradas por um grupo holandês" (They are still being bought by X, the process is still running), but on the other hand "Duas firmas do Porto foram compradas por um grupo holandês" (They have already bought the two companies, the process has finished, done).

Interesting, in Brazilian Portuguese, if I say "Duas firmas do Porto estão a ser compradas por um grupo holandês" or "Duas firmas do Porto estão sendo compradas por um grupo holandês" the two sentences carry a slightly different meaning. ;)
Last edited by rfnsoares on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby Gemuse » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:16 am

Thanks for explanations kind people!

To see if I understand, if I want to say "I am learning Portuguese from the course Linguaphone Portuguese" I will write?
Eu estou a aprender com o curso Linguaphone Portuguese.


Another question.
ter de /ter que
Hugo portuguese says this means necessity or strong obligation. In Essential Portuguese Grammar it says this means something will be done in the future.

So, if I say
Tenho de aprender português
Does this mean:
1. I need to learn Portuguese.
2. I will learn Portuguese?
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby tastyonions » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:38 am

“Ter de” means “need to.” If you’re not averse to reading a long explanation in Portuguese, there’s a good one here:

https://ciberduvidas.iscte-iul.pt/consu ... -que/14247

As the page notes, “ter de” and “ter que” are often used interchangeably these days, even though prescriptively “ter de” is used to denote obligation while “ter que” is used to mean that you have the possibility, occasion, or power to do something. But I hear people (even educated speakers) mixing them up all the time.
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby rfnsoares » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:43 am

Gemuse wrote:Thanks for explanations kind people!

To see if I understand, if I want to say "I am learning Portuguese from the course Linguaphone Portuguese" I will write?
Eu estou a aprender com o curso Linguaphone Portuguese


Another question.
ter de /ter que
Hugo portuguese says this means necessity or strong obligation. In Essential Portuguese Grammar it says this means something will be done in the future.

So, if I say
Tenho de aprender português
Does this mean:
1. I need to learn Portuguese. (the correct answer!)
2. I will learn Portuguese?


As for your first question, it's correct: I am learning Portuguese from the course Linguaphone Portuguese = Eu estou a aprender com o curso Linguaphone Portuguese.

As for the second question, I would translate:
- ter que/de = to have to (strong obligation)
- precisar - to need to (necessity)

Actually, you can use both interchangeably. Even in English I use both constructions (have to and need to) interchangeably. Now I do not know whether I'm doing something wrong in English. :?
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Gemuse
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby Gemuse » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:28 am

Thanks everyone.

What is the difference between the following two sentences:
você deve ir ao medico.
você devia ir ao medico.


Does the present tense always translate (in this context) to must, and the imperfect to should?
Ele deve estar em casa.
Ele devia estar em casa.



Another question.
In my private class, the teacher mentioned the construction "andar + a + verb infinitive", por exemplo:
Eu ando a trabalhar muito.

I was not able to find this construction in my grammar book -- what does it do?

PS: for the ter de refers to the future comment I made earlier -- the grammar book which said that was published in 1966, maybe the language use has changed :?:
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rfnsoares
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Re: Portuguese questions

Postby rfnsoares » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:13 pm

Gemuse wrote:Thanks everyone.

What is the difference between the following two sentences:
você deve ir ao medico.
você devia ir ao medico.


Does the present tense always translate (in this context) to must, and the imperfect to should?
Ele deve estar em casa.
Ele devia estar em casa.


Another question.
In my private class, the teacher mentioned the construction "andar + a + verb infinitive", por exemplo:
Eu ando a trabalhar muito.

I was not able to find this construction in my grammar book -- what does it do?

PS: for the ter de refers to the future comment I made earlier -- the grammar book which said that was published in 1966, maybe the language use has changed :?:


I.
Você deve ir ao médico. (You have to / must go to the doctor).
Você devia ir ao médico. (You should go to the doctor). The usage of "preterite imperfect" (Pretérito Imperfeito), meaning recommendation, is very colloquial. The formal usage would be with the conditional tense (Futuro do Pretérito). Você deveria ir ao médico. Actually, in informal/colloquial speech, people usually prefer the usage of Pretérito Imperfeito, not only with the verb "dever", but with many others.

II.
This kind of construction means that you have been working a lot lately, usually it comes with the adverb "ultimamente" (lately), to reinforce the meaning. Hard to explain, but it is something that you have been doing a lot lately. Another example:
Eu ando a comer muito açúcar, eu deveria parar com isso. (I have been eating much sugar, I should stop it).
The verb "andar" can be also use in other contexts, with an adjective, for example.
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