¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

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NoManches
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:55 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
NoManches wrote:Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.
I've listened to a few of the Polyglot Gathering videos recently. Grigory Kazakov said something very similar in his talk.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0&p=116030



Thanks, I'll have to give then a listen later on. Do you happen to know the portion of the videos that references how humans are "wired" to learn languages from listening? I don't have time to watch both 40 minute videos now but would like to at least see that portion.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:10 pm

NoManches wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:
NoManches wrote:Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.
I've listened to a few of the Polyglot Gathering videos recently. Grigory Kazakov said something very similar in his talk.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0&p=116030



Thanks, I'll have to give then a listen later on. Do you happen to know the portion of the videos that references how humans are "wired" to learn languages from listening? I don't have time to watch both 40 minute videos now but would like to at least see that portion.

In the second video 6m40s.
------------------
When you read, your brain maps the letters/words to sounds, and then passes that information to the same circuit that handles audio input.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 01&p=84766
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NoManches
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:45 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
NoManches wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:
NoManches wrote:Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.
I've listened to a few of the Polyglot Gathering videos recently. Grigory Kazakov said something very similar in his talk.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0&p=116030



Thanks, I'll have to give then a listen later on. Do you happen to know the portion of the videos that references how humans are "wired" to learn languages from listening? I don't have time to watch both 40 minute videos now but would like to at least see that portion.

In the second video 6m40s.
------------------
When you read, your brain maps the letters/words to sounds, and then passes that information to the same circuit that handles audio input.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 01&p=84766



Thanks!! Those videos and that link you just shared are like gold...lots of useful information. I don't speak French but the discussion that follows is good enough for now.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:10 am

Just finished Enemigo Intimo. This is probably the best Spanish program I have seen to date. I highly recommend it. I really hope they have a second season.


What to watch next? I am thinking about watching Ingobernable (season 1) over again and then finishing season 2. But now I need a full length novela...I still have some programs from Spain that I want to finish....but there are so many others from Mexico and Colombia that I also want to watch. I am so grateful that I am a language learner living in a world where the internet and Netflix makes my hobby so much easier and more enjoyable.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby Jaleel10 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:52 am

NoManches wrote:Just finished Enemigo Intimo. This is probably the best Spanish program I have seen to date. I highly recommend it. I really hope they have a second season.


Damn. That is some pretty high praise. What's it about, what makes it that special?

Oh and finish something Spain lol. I feel like I am one of the few people here who watches content from Spain :P That being said, I have started an Argentinian comedy series called Psiconautas and I started Ingobernable last night. Argentinian accent and vocabulary is gonna take some to get used to but so far Ingobernable is manageable, dare I remove the subtitles? :?
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NoManches
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Jaleel10 wrote:
NoManches wrote:Just finished Enemigo Intimo. This is probably the best Spanish program I have seen to date. I highly recommend it. I really hope they have a second season.


Damn. That is some pretty high praise. What's it about, what makes it that special?

Oh and finish something Spain lol. I feel like I am one of the few people here who watches content from Spain :P That being said, I have started an Argentinian comedy series called Psiconautas and I started Ingobernable last night. Argentinian accent and vocabulary is gonna take some to get used to but so far Ingobernable is manageable, dare I remove the subtitles? :?



The sooner you drop the subtitles the better!! Ingobernable Is a relatively short series, so I think it would be good for "intensive viewing". This is harder to do with your typical 80+ episode telenovela that goes on for multiple seasons and takes forever to finish. There is a character in that show who had a (fake) Spanish accent but it might make things easier for you since you are already comfortable with that accent.

I think I really enjoyed Enemigo Íntimo for a a few reasons:

I'm a big fan of El Señor de los Cielos since it was one of the first novelas I ever watched. Fernanda Castillo and Raul Mendez played leading roles in that show, so when I saw them playing leading roles in this program I was hooked.

Although the show deals with cartels and drug trafficking (and violence) , I think this was one of the shows that make the viewer really want to see the police come out on top. In other novelas, it's common to want the narcos to "win" because the producer develops these characters in a way that we become attached to them (like Robin Hood I guess).

I'm also starting to get to the point with my Spanish where my comprehension is not perfect, but is getting pretty dang good. I'd say I had a comprehension level of 90% at the beginning, and it kept improving during the show. This is always a good feeling and when it happens to you, I'm sure you will also feel a certain connection to the show that didn't happen when your comprehension was low.

Also, the show is entertaining. Lots of action and suspense, with very little of your 'typical telenovela drama".

One final point, for some reason I actually felt connected to some of the characters...which hasn't happened too often for me. I think this might be because of much better listening comprehension.

Give the show a try.... you'll know after the first episode of you will like it or not!
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Re: ¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

Postby NoManches » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:41 pm

I've decided to postpone any plans I had of taking the DELE nivel C1 exam in early 2019.

I WILL continue to work through the B2 and C1 books that I bought. They are great resource and just the push I need to make some improvements in areas I tend to ignore.

I WILL continue to fine tune any grammar mistakes I have. My goal is to speak spontaneously and with no effort, while only making minimal grammar mistakes (not making any is too hard of a feat, even for most native speakers).


I'm hoping to take the C1 exam sometime, but ironically work has been incredibly busy and makes it hard to make plans for the upcoming future (I say ironically because lately I have realized that passing a DELE exam could potentially help me out in my job).

I'll continue with reading, listening, and speaking on a regular basis. I think writing is something I should do, but if I don't get around to it I'll still be fine.

As the title of this log now reflects, I will be watching a lot of telenovelas (as always) to make improvements....at least until my work load settles down and I can have a normal work life again.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

Postby NoManches » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:49 pm

A few updates:

I'm on Season 1 Episode 11 of Ingobernable. I'm definitely remembering things that happened in the show which I have since forgotten about. Glad I decided to watch the first season over again before finishing the second season. This show is definitely one of the few that can be watched multiple times. I think La Reina del sur and Kate del Castillo's podcast helped me out big time. My comprehension was great the first time I watched this show, but now it is even better. I plan on finishing this season ASAP and watching season 2 before the month ends.

There are some really good Spanish shows on Netflix now. I watched the trailer and about 20 minutes of the first episode of the show Élite. It looks really good. I think that will be the next show I watch. I still have to finish Casa de Papel too.

I've been getting back on track with my reading habits. I made a goal last week to have a 30 day period where I do the following every day: Read for 30 minutes, intensively listen to a podcast for 30 minutes, and then work on my pronunciation for about 5 minutes by working with an audio my tutor gave me). I'm reading another book by Raul Garbantes called El Ausente. I really like this book and every other book I have read by him. They are interesting, not too difficult to read, and often times I come across the same (or similar) vocabulary in all of his books. I really prefer this method of SRS over anki.

I've been making podcast listening a priority right now over everything else, and it's really paying off. For the last few days I've been listening to a show called "El show de Piolin". I like it because it is 100% Mexican Spanish, with multiple people talking at the same time and lot's of "chistes". It's really challenging my comprehension, but in a good way. I can remember a time when this type of show would have been impossible for me to follow.

I've been practicing regularly with my Spanish tutors and conversation exchange partner on italki/Skype. Each week varies but I am averaging between 2 - 3 hours of spoken Spanish each week.

I've been focusing on improving my grammar as well. I think I've mentioned it before, but I've reached a point in my Spanish where absolutely nobody will correct me because my mistakes are so small that they don't get in the way of the conversation or change the meaning of what I'm trying to say. The only time I get corrections if from my tutors or my language partner, so I'm really glad I have those resources available to me.

I was looking for some grammar books on Amazon and kept coming across the same books I used in the past. There is nothing wrong with them other than the fact that they are really boring. I then remembered that a long time ago (like a year ago?) I bought a book called: Pocket Por and Para: The only book you'll ever need!

https://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Por-Para- ... 1519347367

I broke that book out a while back and put it away for some reason. Well last week I sat down with the book and worked through about 80% of it in one sitting. I was very happy with the results. It was a great refresher for me, and there are so many exercises in the book that if you do them all you are sure to use por and para correctly about 95% of the time. I have noticed that there were some instances where I've never really been sure on if I need to use por or para, so I have always came up with other ways of expressing things to avoid using por OR para, and thus, not making any mistakes (although sounding less native while trying to take this kind of a shortcut). I've done the same thing with the subjunctive and I'm dedicated now to working out any confusion or uncertainty I have in order to sound more "native like" when I speak.

I was impressed with the Por and Para book so I went out and bought three of their other books. I have only worked through a little bit of their Demystifying the Subjunctive book. If I like the other books I will talk about it in my log so others can make a good decision before buying. They have a ton of good reviews on amazon but it lead me to believe that either their books are truly amazing or people are getting discounts or something to write good things. The couple who wrote the books I'm talking about hosts the Light Speed Spanish podcast and youtube channel.

Fall is here and the winter is just around the corner, so I see images of myself binge watching Spanish shows on netflix in the next few months. Hopefully I'm able to use this time to finish the Super Challenge.



Until next time...
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Re: ¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

Postby NoManches » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:14 am

I finished season 1 of Ingobernable. I definitely benefited from watching it a second time. I am on season 2 now and really love this show. I've also been getting back into an old habit of mine of watching YouTube videos in Spanish. I think it's easier to get stuck watching YouTube videos than it is to binge watch a TV show. This is a good thing. I love putting on a video in Spanish about how to use a hi-lift jack (true story) only to realize an hour later that you are watching a video about conspiracy theories. Talk about a black hole. If I had to pick between tv, movies, and YouTube videos, I'd pick YouTube videos....for learning a foreign language I think they are so useful.

Lately I've been working on improving small little bits and pieces of my Spanish. I'm trying to get to the point where I hardly ever make any grammar mistakes. I've spoken Spanish fluently for a long time, but speaking fluently doesn't mean speaking without making any mistakes. I want to reach a level where people assume that I studied abroad or lived in Mexico for a few years. I'd so like to improve my accent. I recorded myself earlier in the week and am really happy to see that my pronunciation has improved tremendously since I started years ago. Most of my vowels sound good and I have no problem with my R and RR's. I think I speak fluently enough where I could start to work on my accent, though. I think (but can't prove) that hundreds of hours (probably in the thousands now) of listening have helped with my accent. I'm thinking about recording myself more often and comparing my speech with that of a native speaker.


Also, I've reached a point with my Spanish where coworkers will call me to translate for them. Before I used to be the guy who could speak enough Spanish to help out Spanish speaking customers . If I made a mistake, had bad comprehension, or couldn't get my point across, it really wasn't a big deal. Now I have a new position and when I use Spanish it's actually very important that I know exactly what I'm saying, know exactly what the other person is saying, and KNOW that the other person knows exactly what I'm talking about. This added pressure is just what I needed to motivate myself to keep practicing and reach an even higher level. The need to take and pass the DELE C1 seems more important now than a few months ago when I wanted to take the exam for "fun".


Plans for the week include more conversation practice with tutors and language exchange partners, daily reading and podcast listening in Spanish. Also, I'd like to finish Ingobernable and get lost once again in the black hole that is known as Spanish YouTube videos.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

Postby MattNeilsen » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 am

I was just reading an old thread today about how to improve pronunciation. The method was described by a guy named Olle Kjellin - you can read the PDF here. Essentially, it's using Audacity to chop up a small set of sentences and then chorusing them to the point of obliteration :)

He makes an interesting point, however, that learners should be more focused on "prosody-acquisition" than "pronunciation-acquisition". To be honest, I don't know if it's relevant at your current level, but I figured I'd link it in case it's helpful.
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