I've always wondered why German "Leidenschaft", literally "suffering", could mean "passion". I just read this article
https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/when-your-pa ... gainst-you
where the explanation makes good sense.
-- begin quote --
Jachimowicz, a native of Germany, learned first-hand just how much a particular job setting matters to whether passion is considered acceptable. The German word for passion, “Leidenschaft,” literally translates to “one’s ability to endure hardship,” so German workers may be more likely to express passion quietly by putting their heads down, working hard, and being persistent, he says.
But that behavior worked against Jachimowicz when he moved to the United States, where his quiet determination prompted American colleagues to question whether he had enough passion for the work. “That made me realize that the context matters, and passion is only beneficial if others can see it.”
-- end quote --
How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
-
- Orange Belt
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:42 am
- Location: Texas
- Languages: English, Chinese. Spanish, French, Italian, German, reading comprehension only.
- Language Log: http://yong321.freeshell.org/misc.html#lang
- x 143
- Contact:
-
- Orange Belt
- Posts: 239
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:18 am
- Location: Krakauer Baggersee
- Languages: Polish (native), speaks: English, Czech, German, Russian, French, Spanish, Italian. Writes in: Latin, Portuguese. Understands: Ancient Greek, Modern Greek, Slovak, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Serbian/Croatian. Studies for passive competence in: Romanian, Slovene, Bulgarian.
- Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1435
- x 472
Re: How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
Well, the English word passion means suffering, too. At least in some contexts, and, to be sure, etymologically. The Russian equivalent (страсть) has undergone similar semantic development.
3 x
BCS 400+ :
RUS 2800+ :
SPA 1500+ :
CZE 1900+ :
RUS 2800+ :
SPA 1500+ :
CZE 1900+ :
-
- Black Belt - 3rd Dan
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
- Location: Scotland
- Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc - x 9474
- Contact:
Re: How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
Theodisce wrote:Well, the English word passion means suffering, too. At least in some contexts, and, to be sure, etymologically.
Yes indeed. In Christianity, "the Passion" (see also Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ) is the name for the final days of Jesus, involving betrayal, brutal torture, and finally death by being nailed to a plank of wood and hung out in the scorching sun.
It's very interesting to see parallel semantic drift in different languages though.
1 x
- tungemål
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:56 pm
- Location: Norway
- Languages: Norwegian (N)
English, German, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch, Polish - Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17672
- x 2233
Re: How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
This inspired me to look up the etymology of "passion", and I found this interesting history (from wiktionary):
1 - The proto-indoeuropean word was *peh₁- ("to hurt")
2 - This developed in Latin to patior ("to suffer") and passio ("suffering")
3 - It also developed to Latin paene ("almost", or "hardly", "scarcely")
4 - It developed to *fijaną in the Germanic branch (meaning "to hate"). Note the well-known sound shift: the beginning "p" always changes to "f" in Germanic words, and also note the differing semantic shift.
Latin development:
5 - 2 was borrowed to French passion and then to English passion
6 - 3 exists as French à peine, Spanish apenas, and others
7 - 3 also exists in English penultimate ("almost last") and peninsula ("almost island")
Germanic development:
8 - *fijandz (meaning both "enemy" and "devil") was formed from 4 *fijaną in Proto-Germanic
9 - This developed to Old English fēond
10 - 8 later became German Feind, Dutch vijand, Scandinavian fiende (meaning only "enemy")
11 - In modern English, 8 became fiend with the meaning of "devil"
12 - English borrowed a Latin word for enemy (inimīcus)
13 - The other Germanic languages borrowed the Latin word for devil (diabolus)
14 - In a final irony, the word passive also derives from 2, and thus has a common root with passion. Ironic because in the context of the opening post, passive would have the exact opposite meaning to passion.
1 - The proto-indoeuropean word was *peh₁- ("to hurt")
2 - This developed in Latin to patior ("to suffer") and passio ("suffering")
3 - It also developed to Latin paene ("almost", or "hardly", "scarcely")
4 - It developed to *fijaną in the Germanic branch (meaning "to hate"). Note the well-known sound shift: the beginning "p" always changes to "f" in Germanic words, and also note the differing semantic shift.
Latin development:
5 - 2 was borrowed to French passion and then to English passion
6 - 3 exists as French à peine, Spanish apenas, and others
7 - 3 also exists in English penultimate ("almost last") and peninsula ("almost island")
Germanic development:
8 - *fijandz (meaning both "enemy" and "devil") was formed from 4 *fijaną in Proto-Germanic
9 - This developed to Old English fēond
10 - 8 later became German Feind, Dutch vijand, Scandinavian fiende (meaning only "enemy")
11 - In modern English, 8 became fiend with the meaning of "devil"
12 - English borrowed a Latin word for enemy (inimīcus)
13 - The other Germanic languages borrowed the Latin word for devil (diabolus)
14 - In a final irony, the word passive also derives from 2, and thus has a common root with passion. Ironic because in the context of the opening post, passive would have the exact opposite meaning to passion.
2 x
- Zegpoddle
- Yellow Belt
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:29 am
- Location: Shanghai
- Languages: English (N), rusty French and German (formerly B2 in each), Russian (beginner), Mandarin Chinese (A2/HSK3)
- x 221
Re: How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
I'm guessing the strong link between the two concepts (passion and suffering) is, in the case of the German language in particular, bolstered even further by literary/cultural history. Does anyone make it through gymnasium (college-preparatory high school) without reading, or at least being exposed to, The Sorrows of Young Werther (Die Leiden des jungen Werthers) by Goethe, which closely identifies [unrequited] passion with intense emotional suffering and eventual self-destruction?
(Sorry, I’m on a Goethe kick after having just finished Die Wahlverwandtschaften (clunkily translated into English as Elective Affinities.)
(Sorry, I’m on a Goethe kick after having just finished Die Wahlverwandtschaften (clunkily translated into English as Elective Affinities.)
1 x
Graciously begging our alien overlords to remember to refresh the batteries regularly in their toddler’s cosmic Game Boy on which the simulation that is my life is running
- tungemål
- Blue Belt
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:56 pm
- Location: Norway
- Languages: Norwegian (N)
English, German, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch, Polish - Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17672
- x 2233
Re: How is "Leidenschaft" "passion"?
That might be.
But as Theodisce and Cainntear pointed out "passion" has both meanings as well, so it is not a German concept. Another thing is that "passion" seems to have been inspired by the old greek word "pathos", a word that also originally meant "suffering" and came to mean "strong emotions". It might have been a pan-European concept.
Maybe the word "leidenschaft" was inspired by and created in the mold of "passion"?
But as Theodisce and Cainntear pointed out "passion" has both meanings as well, so it is not a German concept. Another thing is that "passion" seems to have been inspired by the old greek word "pathos", a word that also originally meant "suffering" and came to mean "strong emotions". It might have been a pan-European concept.
Maybe the word "leidenschaft" was inspired by and created in the mold of "passion"?
2 x
Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: lang-lrnr-224 and 2 guests