The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

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lingua
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby lingua » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:02 am

What specifically do you find easier about French than Italian? The one thing I like about Italian is that the pronunciation is consistent. I'm about three months into Portuguese and the pronunciation is quite difficult for me but I do find the grammar much simpler than Italian. Although it might be partially because I'm already familiar with the parts that are similar to Italian. I believe Italian is considered the easiest of the Romance languages.
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Read 100 Italian books: 91 / 100
Generic (DE/PT) 366 Day Challenge: 94 / 366

Output Challenge:
IT written: 1019 / 50000 recorded: 62 / 3000
DE written: 455 / 50000 recorded: 21 / 3000
PT written: 1369 / 50000 recorded: 27 / 3000

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Lianne
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby Lianne » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:36 pm

lingua wrote:What specifically do you find easier about French than Italian? The one thing I like about Italian is that the pronunciation is consistent. I'm about three months into Portuguese and the pronunciation is quite difficult for me but I do find the grammar much simpler than Italian. Although it might be partially because I'm already familiar with the parts that are similar to Italian. I believe Italian is considered the easiest of the Romance languages.

Specifically, the fact that I've been exposed to French for the past 30 years. :lol: And I've been studying it off and on for quite a number of years, and daily for the past year.

It's not that I think French is intrinsically easier than French; it's just that I'm used to French, and starting Italian is a struggle to get my brain to switch gears. When I'm asked to say something in Italian, first it comes into my brain in French, and then I have to stop, switch to Italian, and answer, and by then usually the Pimsleur guy has moved on, lol. I know it's just because I'm just starting out, and I haven't started out as intensively as I meant to, either. It's been a rough year so far and I've been doing the bare minimum, which isn't a great way to make progress! I've just been so tired, and it feels so much better to curl up with a French book...
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mentecuerpo
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby mentecuerpo » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:44 pm

I don't mean to discourage you from learning Italian, it is my favorite language, and I have been studying for years now.

About romance languages, I would say that Spanish is the easiest to learn due to being a phonetic language and having a more straightforward grammar.

Italian is a difficult language to learn well, in the grammar department.

Italian vocabulary is not the problem; it is Latin based, of course.

The problem with Italian is grammar:
The plural is different; it does not use the "s" at the end.
Too many prepositions.
The pronouns are hard too.

This web page explains it better:
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t13255.htm
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby Cavesa » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:21 pm

I agree that Italian is not so easy. I'd say it's like Spanish. Rather easy to get to the touristy level, but hard to become really good at.
I personally find the prepositions difficult, especially those connected to the articles, the tenses are used in a slightly different way than in French or Spanish (and that's exactly the problem, the seemingly "slight" differences), and so on. Don't let it discourage you, Italian is worth it.

You might profit from using books like these:
Vocabulaire Italien, published by Nathan et Robert
Grammaire Italienne, published by nathan et robert
there are even free samples on the publisher's website nathan.fr
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golyplot
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby golyplot » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:39 pm

mentecuerpo wrote:About romance languages, I would say that Spanish is the easiest to learn due to being a phonetic language and having a more straightforward grammar.

Italian is a difficult language to learn well, in the grammar department.

Italian vocabulary is not the problem; it is Latin based, of course.

The problem with Italian is grammar:
The plural is different; it does not use the "s" at the end.
Too many prepositions.
The pronouns are hard too.


I agree with all of this so much.

One other thing I found difficult about Italian is the gender and number endings. For one thing they aren't very consistent - the usual pattern is o/a/i/e, but some words use e in the singular or end in i despite being feminine or whatever because screw you (blame Latin's billion declension patterns for this), and to make things even more confusing, adjectives have two different contradictory ending patterns. And to add insult to injury, English speakers are trained to ignore vowels at the end of a word because they're all just schwas (well a and e are anyway), which makes it doubly difficult. Also, I have no idea how you're supposed to hear the difference between capelli and cappelli.

P.S. In addition to being simpler and more phonetic, Spanish is also easier because it is a much more popular language. Italian resources can be hard to find, but you practically have to go out of your way to avoid Spanish.
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby PfifltriggPi » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:51 pm

golyplot wrote:Also, I have no idea how you're supposed to hear the difference between capelli and cappelli.


I'm sure most of you already know this all, but just in case :

First, for speakers from the north-west of the country, there is often no difference : those dialects did not preserve the gemination. That said, in the standard language, you literally say both "p"s. It helps that there is a syllable break between them. So in this case you would close the first syllable with a /p/ and then start the second syllable with another /p/. In "capelli" only one "p" hears itself. The most commonly sited example in English would be compound words like "hat-trick" or "pen-knife", where there is a similar phenomenon. (That is, unless you speak an Atlantic Canadian dialect of English which does all sorts of horrible things to poor innocent "t"s. [æʔ. tɾɪk])
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Lianne
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Re: The Bee's Knees: Lianne starts the 20s with French and Italian

Postby Lianne » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:14 am

French
OK, you know what, there's no way I'm gonna be able to remember what I did on which days for the past week. Really gotta get back into the frequent updates!! But I should at least be able to list everything I did altogether. It'll add up to 7 hours over 7 days and you'll just have to trust me that that was an hour each day!

Feb. 7-13:
2 hours, 15 minutes watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Bargaining, parts 1 and 2; After Life)
2 hours, 15 minutes watching Angel (Heartthrob; That Vision Thing; That Old Gang of Mine)
2 hours, 10 minutes reading La vie compliquée de Léa Olivier, tome 3: Chantage (60 pages, ending on pg. 143)
20 minutes listening to Duolingo French Podcast (Entre deux mondes)

Italian
Neglected. Extra French done daily to compensate in the 366 Day Challenge.
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: 257 / 2500 Reading 2500 pages of French in 2020 (updated Feb. 14)

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