Fluenz ... Belling the Cat

[Speakeasy]

Me: I was rather surprised by the recent discussion thread on Rosetta Stone and it has given me the courage to step forward and tell my own story.

Group Leader: Welcome to the group. Please stand up and introduce yourself. You’re amongst friends. Please share your story with us.

Me: Hello, my name is Speakeasy. As for many of you, my story is one of is one of desperation. Over the years, my use of language-learning products had become compulsive and yet, somehow, unfulfilling. Searching for inspiration to fill the inner void, I purchased FLUENZ Italian. Here’s my story …

I had previously purchased, or downloaded, what my experience assured me were the very best language-learning materials available for independent learners desirous of learning Italian: Assimil (both levels), Living Language Ultimate (both levels), Linguaphone, Pimsleur I-IV, Michel Thomas (four levels), FSI Fast, FSI Programmatic, and I augmented my collection with a selection of intermediate readers and magazines. I started and I stopped. I restarted and I stopped again. I completely abandoned my project to learn Italian only to return. The process continued until my state of desperation drove me consider FLUENZ Italian. I searched the Internet for reviews and found, for the most part, what I considered to be the largest collection of bogus claims that I have ever had the misfortune to come across. Sorry, this is an election year in Canada; so, what I meant to say was: bogus claims concerning language-learning methods.

Despite my scepticism, I took the plunge. I did not bother ordering just the first module. No, I’m a “go big or go home” kinda guy, and I purchased the entire 5-module set of FLUENZ Italian. At this juncture, having completed the first two modules, I believe that I have a fairly well-informed opinion of the programme and I know what to expect upon completion. First, allow me to say that, from the perspective of computer programming, Fluenz Italian is, indeed, very slick and functional. I do not want to divulge too much concerning the learning experience, as I would prefer to allow other Forum Members to add their own comments. By the way, you can even say “Speakeasy, you idiot! You should have known better. You got what you deserved.” … or words to that effect.

Nonetheless, I would genuinely like to hear others’ comments on Fluenz. Furthermore, as for the separate discussion thread of Rosetta Stone, this will be our first opportunity to dismantle yet another technological solution to a non-technological problem. Frankly, I am beginning to suspect that, deep down inside, I do not want to learn Italian.

[Cavesa]

Thanks for ahring your story, Speakeasy! May I have a bunch of curious questions?

I tried the demo of Fluenz and despite the vague claims (no cefr level or anything mentioned anywhere, the most advanced volumes seem to cover at best intermediate stuff), I think the idea behind it all is very good. The only thing that has been keeping me from trying Fluenz is the price tag (which is fine, if the content is worth it). Sure, I know there is lots of work behind the program and so on, but there are just too many awesome and much cheaper alternatives for the large langauges. It might however be one of the best starts in Japanese or Mandarin, anyone has tried those?

So, my questions the demo hasn't covered:

Are you getting enough context for the new stuff? Are the explanations really good? Is the amount of examples sufficient?

Can Fluenz be trully used as the standalone main course for learning the basics of a language or is it another of the "great as a supplement to something more serious" bunch?

How much vocabulary would you say it covers?

Do you have sufficient amount of exercises? Is there any kind of SRS mechanics included? What kind of exercises are there? If I remember correctly the demo, there were some multiple choice questions and translations. What else is there?

Is the learning curve steeper or less steep, compared to the previous sources you had been trying?

How far approximately does Fluenz take you?

Is it worth the money?

[rlnv]

I completed Fluenz French 1 through 4. Despite the horrible company name, I was enticed by the Amazon reviews and information I found on the Fluenz site. Fluenz was my first French course. I did it before Assimil. Influential in my choice to use it was that it was computer based and they had a fairly decent explanation of the content on their site.

The price of entrance is high, and I get the sense that their primary market are people that may be considering Rosetta. Up market, boutique, d'un haut niveau.

I enjoyed it for the most part. It does tend to get a bit slow and tedious. Although I was happy about making solid progress with it, and it gave a feeling of structure which was comforting for me at the beginning. What it does very well is laying out a solid foundation to build from. I followed it with Assimil, and it was like a one-two punch. Transitioning to Assmil was smooth coming from the solid base of Fluenz.

What I liked:
+ It being computer based. Work online or as an install on your workstation.
+ Each level has a variety of exercises and an instructor video.
+ Well defined structure, building slowly upon previous lessons, while always adding something new or another angle to what is already known.
+ It has excellent online flash cards which re-enforce and expand on what the lessons cover. They are one of the best features in my opinion.
+ There is lots of opportunity to hear variations of sentence structures which seems to intuitively ingrain some grammar.

My annoyances:
- The accompanying audio podcasts are full of English! It makes listening more than once painful. (not the main course, the accompanying podcasts).
- For French the first two levels are done by a person with a strong English accent.
- It tends to get slow and repetitive. For a long time I thought this was a good thing, but looking back it may have slowed my progress at the beginning.
- Later levels can take a couple of hours to get though, increasing a feeling of just wanting to move forward instead of grinding away.


Edit for clarification of audio.

[Speakeasy]

Fluenz Part 1

Hi Cavesa,

Thank you for your post. Before answering your questions, all of which are quite pertinent, since I found that the Demo on the Fluenz.com website lacked detail, I will begin with a description of the programme and then will return to your questions. Since this could be a very long post, I have decided to separate it into two distinct replies. This reply provides a description of the Fluenz programme and my second reply will address your questions.

Description of the Fluenz Programme
• The programme is provided on one DVD/ROM, with an accompanying audio CD, for each of the 5 levels that make up the complete programme. It can be loaded onto a computer, an iPod, or an iPhone.
• The screen presentations throughout the programme are clear, attractive, professional, and devoid of unnecessary distractions. The screen background is black and all of the course information is presented in attractive, highly readable colours, and simple text fonts. At the bottom of the screen, a small line indicates the student’s progress through a given lesson in terms of percent (example: 73%).
• Each of the levels in the programme contains 30 lessons.
• Each lesson is composed of several “Workouts” that contain the basic dialogue, the explanations, and the exercises. Moving forward and backwards between the Workouts is quite smooth. The system contains a well-integrated glossary that can be easily accessed.
• Workout-1 is a short video wherein the course leader, who speaks the target language well, but who might not be a native speaker of the language herself, briefly introduces the overall lesson plan. NOTE: The other audio recordings are native speakers.
• Workout-2 presents the “dialogue” containing the core vocabulary on which the lesson is based. Using the keyboard, or mouse, the user can show the text of the dialogue, without or without a transcription, and can repeat the recorded audio as many times as he wishes.
• Workout-3 is a video wherein the course leader presents each new item of vocabulary, inserts into the phrase of the dialogue, and provides a very brief explanation of the structural elements in play. The vocabulary items and phrases appear on the screen as the course leader presents them. The word “grammar” is studiously avoided and, for the more serious student, the explanations will probably seem a little superficial.
• Workout-4 presents a list of vocabulary items on which the student clicks to activate the recorded audio which is to be repeated for practice. The list will contain the new elements of vocabulary and can include vocabulary items from previous lessons.
• Workout-5 presents a printed list of words and phrases based on the new vocabulary along with their translations, that are deliberately placed out-of-sequence. The student uses the “drag and drop” keyboard functions to place the target-language-phrase over the translated-phrase.
• Workout-6 contains a sequence of words and phrases, in English, for which the student must type (without error) the equivalent text of the target language.
• Workout-7 is very similar to Workout-6, above.
• Workout-8 presents a series of recorded words and phrases, in the target language, for which the student must type (without error) the equivalent text of the target language.
• Workout-9 is very similar to Workout-8, above.
• Workout-10 presents the written text of the audio on which the text clicks to activate and repeat the recorded audio. The student can record his voice and replay it for comparison purposes.
• Workout-11 is somewhat similar to Workout-10, above. However, there is something of a “role playing” element in the exercise.
• Workout-12 presents a series of recorded words and phrases, in the target language, for which the student must type (without error) the equivalent text of the target language.
• Workout-13 presents a printed list of words and phrases based on the new vocabulary along with their translations, that are deliberately placed out-of-sequence. The student uses the “drag and drop” keyboard functions to place the target-language-phrase over the translated-phrase.
• Workout-14 presents a list of phrase items on which the student clicks to activate the recorded audio which is to be repeated for practice. The list will contain the new elements of vocabulary and can include vocabulary items from previous lessons.
• Workout-15 is a short video wherein the course leader encourages the student to repeat the lessons and practice, practice, practice.
• Moving fairly quickly through a lesson, without pauses or repeating the materials, takes somewhere between 60 and 90 minutes.
• As I do not have either an iPad or an iPhone, I have not used other aspects of the programme. However, I did use the audio CDs, which I found to be rather elementary, devoid of any creative sense, and downright boring.

My Learning Experience with the Fluenz Programme
• I SWEAR that I am NOT a Luddite. I would not be blogging on the Not-the-Real-HTLAL if I were. Nonetheless, I am of the opinion that language-learning is not, or is not necessarily, a technical issue. Yes, technology can assist the independent learner. For example, recorded audio with accompanying transcripts and grammatical explanations have permitted untold numbers of people to achieve very high levels of practical skills in speaking a foreign language. Furthermore, the ability to connect with native speakers and tutors, who are located quite literally on the other side of the world, via the Worldwide Web, has most assuredly helped many students improve their skills. And yet …
• Much of the student’s interaction with the Fluenz programme is in the form of keyboard entry in response to visual or auditory prompts, or in matching target-language text with its English equivalent. I have to admit that this does assist in memorizing the vocabulary and it does reinforce, to a certain extent, the structure of the language. However, I am not convinced that the results greater than, or perhaps even as good as, simply repeating dialogues with programmes such as Assimil, or using sentence-pattern-drills such as included in the FSI Basic courses or with materials such as Glossika.
• Owing to the very heavy emphasis on on-screen activity, I found that I had to remind myself constantly that developing speaking skills requires a very serious investment in time and that, despite the course leader’s recommendations to practice, it seems to mean that the programme itself does not provide the kind of emphasis that I had hoped for.
• Can a motivated student learn the basics of language with the Fluenz programme? Absolutely! Should he consider purchasing it? Absolutely! Should he consider the alternatives? Absolutely!

[Speakeasy]

Fluenz Part 2

Hi Cavesa,

In response to your questions:

Are you getting enough context for the new stuff? Are the explanations really good? Is the amount of examples sufficient?
Yes, I would say that the context is quite good. As to the explanations, I would say that this programme addresses the needs of the hesitant, if not fearful, language-learner who probably panics at the very mention of the word “grammar”. So, the explanations are “okay, but somewhat superficial”. While the exercises contain sufficient material for practice, a lot of it is keyboard entry. The student must rely on this own initiative and sense of purpose to repeat the audio lessons.

Can Fluenz be truly used as the standalone main course for learning the basics of a language or is it another of the "great as a supplement to something more serious" bunch?
I would say that Fluenz is, indeed, a stand-alone course. The very basics of the target language are presented and it serves quite well as preparation for subsequent materials, such as Assimil (see rinv’s comments). However, I would NOT recommend that it be used as a “supplement” to some other language-learning method, as I suspect that there would be too many conflicts in the different approaches. So, use it and then move on.

How much vocabulary would you say it covers?
I have not conducted a word-count, but I would “estimate” that the complete 5-level programme introduces approximately 1,500 word families, perhaps more.

Do you have sufficient amount of exercises? Is there any kind of SRS mechanics included? What kind of exercises are there? If I remember correctly the demo, there were some multiple choice questions and translations. What else is there?
In my separate post, I provided a description of the programme. No, there are no SRS mechanics included. The exercises involve, surprisingly, a lot of keyboard entry of text. The exercise is “suffient” to reinforce the material within a lesson. HOWEVER, the student MUST ABSOLUTELY practice the audio portion and, in my view, the programme does not emphasize this aspect.

Is the learning curve steeper or less steep, compared to the previous sources you had been trying?
The learning curve is a long, low incline. I suspect that the creators wanted to avoid sending the students into a state of mental paralysis; so, they decided to provide “just enough new material in each lesson to be stimulating” and not much more.

How far approximately does Fluenz take you?
I have completed only 2 levels of the complete 5-level programme. However, based on my appreciation of the materials to date, along with my experience with Assimil, FSI, Linguaphone, Pimsleur, and the like, I anticipate that the end-game is somewhere around A2 in terms of overall ability. However, there would remain the matter of "vocabulary" that would have to be augmented.

Is it worth the money?
Ya pays yer money ‘n ya takes yer chances! Bon, okay, you asked a very serious question and it merits a serious reply. Presently, the complete 5-level Fluenz programme sells for 368 $US. For a similar amount of money, one could purchase the comparable Pimsleur I-IV programme. The learning experiences would be entirely different. I suspect that Pimsleur would take the student a little bit further. Alternatively, one could purchase Assimil (both levels), acquire FSI Basic for free, and have a fair amount of money left over to pay for a small dictionary, a grammar, and some native materials. So the answer is: yes and no! Yes, if the student responds extremely well to the approach adopted by Fluenz, but would be discouraged by the more conventional approaches offered by Assimil and the like to the point of abandoning all effort. No, absolutely not, provided that the student can cope with rigours of the more conventional methods.

A question that you did not ask: is it slick and professional?
Oh, YES! It is VERY slick and VERY professional.

Another question that you did not ask: so, if you really do not want to learn Italian, why are you putting yourself through so much grief?
Huhh … ???

[Speakeasy]

@rinv,
Thank you very much for your clear and succinct appreciation of the Fluenz programme.

[Cavesa]

Thanks a lot for awesome reviews and answers!

Well, Speakeasy, the good thing about Italian is that you might grow to like it or find a use for it later. I had hated English for years and found some uses for it

After all those answers, I am unlikely to save money for Fluenz, I dislike too slow learning curves, respond well to more serious methods and so on. But if Fluenz stole a part of the market from the RS, that would be great! There would be a bit less stupidity in this world again and many more anglophone natives able to get by in a second language.

[PeterMollenburg]

I have all 5 levels of Fluenz French. I'm currently just over a third of the way through level 4.

My thoughts:
• Levels 1 and 2 in French the 'tutor' who provides English explanations of French has annoyingly sloppy pronunciation of French nasal vowels.
• The large body of native spoken content throughout all levels studied so far is fortunately very well spoken in Parisian French (including a native French speaker as tutor in levels beyond the first two).
• Drill-like activities remind me of FSI minus the 'substitution' style activities of FSI- excellent for reinforcing basic to intermediate French and not as dry as FSI.
• If you like shadowing there is a mass of material the language learner can shadow.
• High quality voice recognition software in each lesson including interactive conversations with characters.
• Develops good variation on sentence production for the learner.
• A nice (albeit limited) range of language learning activities.
• Tutor explanations drag and seem too easy most of the time (can be skipped).
• 30 lessons of decent length an hour-90 min? for each level.
• Even with all 5 levels this is unlikely to take the learner beyond B2 at best- but it will boost output confidence if you learn to 'drill' each sentence to improve accent, grammar and intonation. I'd recommend it as a very solid and somewhat 'pretty' course that's suited to motivated beginners who might struggle with 'duller' courses.
• Expensive
• Best computer-based program for language learning I've used to date.
• Glossy stunning images as backdrops.

It is definitely one of my preferred courses. I still feel like shadowing the many sentences and building sentences is helping my French a lot even if I am now around a B2 level. It has its place- a good lead in to FSI perhaps?

[TexDeuce]

I have used Fluenz, made it through level 3 Spanish before switching to French. I already had a background in Spanish, this was more of a refresher for me. I am decent enough at Spanish I can get by in a latin country and hold a decent conversation so I decided to jump ship because the French bug really bit me hard.

As for Fluenz, I liked it a lot. I am someone that needs structure, I need a program and path to stay on. Fluenz is sharp, sleek and I love the fact you have a tutor talking to you along the way. Like your own private teacher. Fluenz won't make you fluent, and it is focused a lot on the traveler. I think this is a good thing. It will give you a good base though, I think something like FSI would be much easier after doing a course like Fluenz.

In short, I'm a fan. For an intro/intermediate course it is pretty good, and it is "fun" enough to keep you going. I very much looked forward to the video tutorials, those really helped some of the concepts sink in. If you have the money definitely go for it. If you don't, I wouldn't say Fluenz is necessary, but it's nice.

I actually recently bought Rosetta Stone for French to see if it is as bad as everyone says, lol. I am also using Michel Thomas for the first time as well. I might come back later and make a thread on my thoughts on each of those.

This is my first post, I was a rare poster and lurker at HTLAL and saw that it seems to be dying a slow death. I am glad this forum was put together, hopefully it becomes a vibrant community full of language lovers and learners.

[James29]

I've never done Fluenz, but the hostess/creator, Sonia Gil, is quite impressive. I love her travel videos... especially the beach ones. www.soniagil.com