Mostly Arabic with Maiwenn

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Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 591

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby Maiwenn » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:38 am

The Week
Darija
Read a Le Petit Nicolas story. I was so thrilled with this -- there were only a few words I had to look up. <3 Love me some Le Petit Nicolas stories. The first full "chapter" book I read in French was Le Petit Nicolas so I've got quite the soft spot for it. I gave an off-the-cuff summary of it to my teacher. Beyond that, I had two great skype lessons and language exchanges.

MSA
I finished reviewing Assimil Arabic and am now entering the territory of the unknown. Well, unknown-ish. I learned a lot of the grammar already from another book and naturally there's a fair bit of overlap in vocabulary with Darija.
This isn't actually MSA, but I've been watching Fly with Haifa videos. She posts videos in Arabic and English, with subtitles for the language not being spoken. Her recent videos are from a trip to Morocco, so actually include some Darija! It's interesting to hear her speak with Moroccans.
I wrote a couple of emails to my future teacher and scheduled my first lessons for the new year! My teacher will be a Syrian who has lived in several different Arabic-speaking countries and has experience with different dialects. For the first lesson, we'll start with MSA and gradually bring in more and more Levantine dialect. I've kicked up the notch on MSA the past week (because now that I've got a lesson coming up, I want to learn as much as possible beforehand hahh) to the point where I dreamed about speaking Arabic. Fun times.
Also, clozemaster.

Deutsch
HP5 listening, some grammar, watching tv dubbed in German.

Goals for the rest of 2017
Practice each language when I can, but mostly enjoy the time I'll be spending with friends I don't often get to see.
Keep up ye ole clozemaster streak.

See you in 2018!
7 x
Full SC Arabic Reading: 3378 / 5000
Double SC French Reading: 5585 / 10000
Half SC German Reading: 392 / 2500
Arabic Output Writing: 2500 / 50000 Speaking: 103 / 3000

Corrections are always welcome. :)

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tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby tarvos » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:54 pm

I don't know why I keep reading this log thinking you're lost in a Moroccan desert, only to realize that was a trip and you're still in France :D

I want to learn Arabic at some point, but SOMEHOW I doubt that it'll be a language I get to use very much. Arabic is not really a language conducive to cultures that are, ahem, LGBT-tolerant as of yet, and although I know that doesn't include every single Arabic speaker in existence, this, thus far, has deterred me from learning any languages where the dominant majority of their speakers is Muslim. And that's a shame, because my country is overrun with Berber and Turkish speakers as well as Somali, Arabic, and various others.

(I even attended a meeting for a social housing programme in my village once, where I could manage to get a place before I got my current one, and they were planning to house refugees there. The funniest thing I heard there was: "How are we going to communicate with those people? I speak Dutch, English and German, but I don't speak Arabic. Does the landlord and housekeeper speak Arabic?" To which the meeting holder replied "Well, wouldn't it be a nice challenge for you to learn Arabic then?" To which the guy answered "Not opposed to that." "Ah well, that's good then. And anyway, some of them may know English.")
3 x
How can you "just be yourself" when you don't know who you are?
Stop saying "Yeah, I know how you feel."
How could anyone know how another feels?

Is a girl.

User avatar
Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 591

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby Maiwenn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:04 am

tarvos wrote:I want to learn Arabic at some point, but SOMEHOW I doubt that it'll be a language I get to use very much. Arabic is not really a language conducive to cultures that are, ahem, LGBT-tolerant as of yet, and although I know that doesn't include every single Arabic speaker in existence, this, thus far, has deterred me from learning any languages where the dominant majority of their speakers is Muslim. And that's a shame, because my country is overrun with Berber and Turkish speakers as well as Somali, Arabic, and various others.


I understand this completely. This is something I struggle with even as a cisgender woman. I've been following the progressive LGBT movement in Morocco as much as I can. Aswat Magazine is one resource, though they haven't posted much this year.... Its existence, however, is promising in that it is an Arabic-language magazine. I hope that they will continue. The other resource is youtube/facebook comments which promptly cause me to lose faith in humanity (but this is the case in almost every language ;) ). I don't know how much I will travel to Arabic-speaking countries aside from Morocco, so I've been telling myself that once I get to a certain level, I'll begin volunteering to help those arriving in France.

I recently found this video which seems like it will become a series, but there's only the one so far (the author has published some other interesting videos, usually with subtitles available):


And if you ever do begin learning Arabic, I'm sure you will overtake my progress in no time. ;)
2 x
Full SC Arabic Reading: 3378 / 5000
Double SC French Reading: 5585 / 10000
Half SC German Reading: 392 / 2500
Arabic Output Writing: 2500 / 50000 Speaking: 103 / 3000

Corrections are always welcome. :)

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby tarvos » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:44 am

I don't think that I will overtake people in Arabic that quickly. Apart from the whole MSA/dialect thing, the real issue is that I have to learn all the vocab separately and that will take loads of time (apart from the fact you're studying two languages in one go). If what I do seems quick, it's because most of these languages are all related to another, except for Mandarin (and I lived in China so I had an advantage there).

Yeah, I am aware there are many queer refugees (and even a lot of trouble housing them together with other refugees... urgh). I know that the COC (which is the LGBT lobby group here in the Netherlands) has translated its flyers to Russian and Arabic particularly to help out refugees and immigrants so that the police and immigration services can help them if this is an issue, and to tell them to not be afraid of the Dutch authorities. "The only way to for us to help you is if you tell us beforehand, the Dutch authorities do not have the right to judge you by law and they will not."
1 x
How can you "just be yourself" when you don't know who you are?
Stop saying "Yeah, I know how you feel."
How could anyone know how another feels?

Is a girl.

User avatar
Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 591

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby Maiwenn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:59 am

tarvos wrote:If what I do seems quick, it's because most of these languages are all related to another, except for Mandarin (and I lived in China so I had an advantage there).


I don't think you give yourself enough credit. Certainly living in China helped, but plenty of foreigners live in China for much longer without coming close to your level. You put in the work. :)
0 x
Full SC Arabic Reading: 3378 / 5000
Double SC French Reading: 5585 / 10000
Half SC German Reading: 392 / 2500
Arabic Output Writing: 2500 / 50000 Speaking: 103 / 3000

Corrections are always welcome. :)

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Contact:

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby tarvos » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:15 am

It depends on where you live. It's true I got to a reasonable level (I am definitely not in the C-range in Mandarin, though...), but I also lived in Bumshitsville, Nowhereland, China for four months. Most people that live in that type of circumstance will be forced to learn Mandarin - the rough way. Expats who spend all their life in Sanlitun don't count. :P I think the credit should go to me, but rather for moving to Bumshitsville than learning Mandarin...

(I have also spent a month in Beijing and a fair amount travelling around. Invariably, the foreigners that had some Chinese were those who went a little off the beaten path.)
1 x
How can you "just be yourself" when you don't know who you are?
Stop saying "Yeah, I know how you feel."
How could anyone know how another feels?

Is a girl.

nooj
Brown Belt
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:59 pm
Languages: english (n)
x 2443

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby nooj » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:30 pm

tarvos wrote:I don't know why I keep reading this log thinking you're lost in a Moroccan desert, only to realize that was a trip and you're still in France :D

I want to learn Arabic at some point, but SOMEHOW I doubt that it'll be a language I get to use very much. Arabic is not really a language conducive to cultures that are, ahem, LGBT-tolerant as of yet, and although I know that doesn't include every single Arabic speaker in existence, this, thus far, has deterred me from learning any languages where the dominant majority of their speakers is Muslim. And that's a shame, because my country is overrun with Berber and Turkish speakers as well as Somali, Arabic, and various others.


It looks like you're learning Korean. Rest assured, there are many Korean Christians who loathe LGBT people. I should know, my dad is one of them, and Korean society in general is homophobic (just ask a gay Korean). If we're going to be judging languages based on the actions of their speakers, then we wouldn't learn any language.

Here is an interesting report done by a Moroccan TV channel on whether people would accept a gay person in their family:



Maiwenn, it looks like you live in France, is that right? There is an excellent two book analysis of Moroccan Arabic, from phonetics to synax to transcriptions of conversations. It is by the linguist Dominique Caubet. There is information about Moroccan Arabic in there that just cannot be found anywhere online, with the aid of a native speaker it would definitely be helpful. I know there was an exemplar at the library in the Institut du monde arabe in Paris (I read it there), but I hope it might be available at a university closer to you in Alsace.

Image
2 x
زندگی را با عشق
نوش جان باید کرد

User avatar
Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 591

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby Maiwenn » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Fun fact: I'm literally at the IMA right now. I will check out the book you recommended!
0 x
Full SC Arabic Reading: 3378 / 5000
Double SC French Reading: 5585 / 10000
Half SC German Reading: 392 / 2500
Arabic Output Writing: 2500 / 50000 Speaking: 103 / 3000

Corrections are always welcome. :)

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 5799
Contact:

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby tarvos » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:29 pm

It looks like you're learning Korean. Rest assured, there are many Korean Christians who loathe LGBT people. I should know, my dad is one of them, and Korean society in general is homophobic (just ask a gay Korean). If we're going to be judging languages based on the actions of their speakers, then we wouldn't learn any language.


I am aware, but I won't literally die in Korea. There is no legal punishment for you in Korea as there is in Arab countries. Plenty of US Christians are homophobic too, and plenty of Latino Catholics. I still speak English and Spanish. I can manage ;)
1 x
How can you "just be yourself" when you don't know who you are?
Stop saying "Yeah, I know how you feel."
How could anyone know how another feels?

Is a girl.

User avatar
Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 591

Re: Maiwenn's log السنجابة كتنسا (Moroccan Arabic, MSA, German)

Postby Maiwenn » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:21 pm

Me revoilà!

Languages were not a priority this past week (and how do I ever feel it), but we're in 2018 now and I'm ready to hit the road running. Even if I didn't spend time studying, I did have some nice interactions with Arabic, German, and Chinese during a quick trip to Paris and London.

In Paris, I hit up the Institut du Monde Arabe (IMA). For those not in the know, the IMA has an amazing (and free!) view of Paris (as well as clean toilets... seriously, the IMA is a great stop in Paris even if you're not going to check out their exhibits). Of special interest to me this time, however, was the bookshop. I managed to restrain myself to my intended purchases (a Bescherelle for Arabic verbs and a couple editions of their in-house magazine for Arabic learners, Al Moukhtarat) and a bilingual French-Lebanese Arabic collection of stories as well as a translation of Tahar Ben Jelloun's Mes Contes de Perrault in Arabic. There was much else besides that I would have liked to purchase as well, but one must be realistic. I have already got enough Arabic resources to last me a year of intensive study, without even considering all the internets offers for free! (Sadly, I was called away before I could check out the book nooj told me about.)

In London, my partner I went to meet a friend at a Lebanese restaurant for dinner. As we turned down the street, I noticed one store front had writing in Arabic. Then another, then another, then a pharmacy proudly placed "صيدلية" next to the English. I was amazed and delighted. Nothing, oddly, delighted me more than seeing this:
Image
(Sorry for the photo's potato quality.) Now, I don't actually care for Cinnabon, but I was absolutely tickled that they had studied their location enough and chose to include both English and Arabic logos. It almost tempted me to go in. Fortunately, I had much better food awaiting me. The menu was in English and Arabic (surprise!) and my ever-so-kind partner goaded me into ordering in Arabic. The experience was a good motivator for my upcoming MSA/Levantine Arabic lessons.

My train home was filled with Germans and so I had a nice time trying to pick up what I could.

Oh yes! And Chinese! Forgot to mention that. Half of my traveling companions were native Chinese speakers. After not touching the language for the past, oh, five or so years, I was delighted every time I picked out a word/phrase. I even said a few spontaneous sentences. It definitely made me want to return to the language again.... BUT 2018's foci need to be Arabic and German. 新年快乐!
سنة سعيدة و كل عام و انتم بالف خير
Frohes neues Jahr!

2018 goals/plans are forthcoming.
5 x
Full SC Arabic Reading: 3378 / 5000
Double SC French Reading: 5585 / 10000
Half SC German Reading: 392 / 2500
Arabic Output Writing: 2500 / 50000 Speaking: 103 / 3000

Corrections are always welcome. :)


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