Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

[Carmody]

My thanks to you both for your guidance.

[PeterMollenburg]

Hi,
Could you please give me some examples of

The French learning magazines

I don't believe I know about them.

Here’s a link to a so-called guided tour of the other French learning magazine I subscribe to. It’s called Think French. It’s digital only (accompanying audio as well). They also have Think Spanish (which I receive as well) and Think Italian.
http://www.thinklanguage.com/tf_tour/think-french-magazine-tour/index.html

I much prefer Bien-dire as the quality is second to none and its nice to flick through a real magazine. However Think French is good for mobile devices/computers if you either have the moments to use portable digital devices where paper magazines aren’t with you, or you just prefer digital.

I initially found Think French customer service quite good, but lately it stinks. Multiple emails and still no replies, so they are either ignoring me (because they don’t like me asking them the legitimate question of why there was no July issue of the magazine -again poor form-) or they are very inattentive. I really don’t think much of their customer service at all. That aside, it’s ok, but not the 5 out of 5 overall I’d give Bien-dire.

[smallwhite]

Thread on Think French website and book with CD:

Think Language audio magazines (French, Spanish, Italian)

[Carmody]

Many thanks to Peter and smallwhite ; you folks are shinning beacons for me and greatly appreciated.

[PeterMollenburg]

So.... career musings and language love...

A couple of years ago I was nursing in A&E, ED, emergency department, whatever you like to call it. An opportunity arrived so I took it, to work in a prison (as a nurse still). I’ve been doing that for almost 2 years, always casual. Meaning I’m paid at a higher rate, can pick and choose when I want to work (don’t get me wrong, I do work 5 days a week- I mean which shift times suit), but I don’t get sick leave or holiday pay. So there are downsides. But with a young family and me being ambitious, it’s worked well to suit things outside of work.

A little time ago an agency I previously worked on and off for had some nursing going in my old home town where my family lives. I took that work, and told the prison I wasn’t available, as I”m casual I can do that. I’ve been working in A&E of a good sized hospital and relised how much the time in the prison environment had led to my skills becoming very rusty! I’m finding me feet, if you can call it that (A&E’s are insanely crazy places where you never stop most of the time).

I don’t hate nursing, but I have a lot of issues with the way the medical system works, what methods are employed, who really makes the systems what they are today in western countries due to power, money, control and so on. It’s no conspiracy, the facts are there if you follow the money and money dictates what is taught, how the system operates and what interventions are on option. There mind you plenty of conspiracies within that. I’ll stop there.

Despite my interest in seeing where nurses can earn high wages in Europe, i’m not one to chase further qualifications, try to go into management and those sorts of things. I like a simple life. Work, home, family, study languages, repeat. I wish I could get rid of the work part as I don’t agree with a good portiion of it ideologically. Still, I must have an income and as far as nursing goes, there are perhaps worse things I could be doing, and there is mountains of job opportunities out there.

Belgium. It’s the chosen target in the medium term future. I am aiming to get into nursing there. I have just discovered that their 3 year nursing degree has shifted to a four year nursing degree from late 2016. In Australia we do three years. Many western countrires do 3 years, many do four. Four is becoming more the norm. I’m concerned that when I go to have my Australian qualifications assessed they won’t match up by a long shot. I could be wrong though, and my wife believes it is of little concern, because with the Netherlands despite our three years and their four, our qualifications appear to amount to more anyway.

Moving on... By the time I am ready to attempt to work there in 2 years or thereabouts, a wave of new nurses will be on the horizon in Belgium that have done four years training. So I theorized if it would be worth me doing a post-graduate qualfication here in Australia in the lead up to moving there. This would take 2 years part-time and take a good portion of my language study time away from me. I”m not keen on further study in Australia. It would assure I have ample qualifications. It would build my skill level and knowledge. It would take time, I would probably resent it taking away my language learning time. I may not make C1/C2 in French prior to attempting to go to Belgium.

So yesterday I was sure I ought to do this 2 year post-graduate qualfication. Today I’m the other way. My wife knows me well and is very much a realist and feels it will likely irritate me and leave me doing a half assed job of it which also isn’t fair on the hospital I’d be working at here in Australia.

If I knew it would only cost me one hour a day of my language study, I think I’d do it, but intuition and a tad research tells me (as well as my slow learning style), that it’s likely to take almost all of my 3 hours of language learning time away from me.

I’d rather stick to my French C1 mission November 2018, if I pass then C2 May 2019 and reintroduce Dutch then. Language skills will help my chances massively when attempting to get into Belgium. Post-grad qualification might be equally impressive. If I took it on - language learning plumets and my happy diligent hobby too. If I didn’t, I run the risk of not getting into Belgium. If I am told I need three months transition into Belgian nursing, we could handle that. If I need to do 12 months, unlikely we could handle that.

A few side notes. My wife knows of Australian nurses who have gone to Ireland and Canada, both countries I believe do four year degrees. Sometimes, I believe four year degrees have a preparatory like year, may or may not be the case with these two countries. I also discovered a kiwi nurse (they do 3 years) who is nursing in Belgium now (for one year) and she got STRAIGHT into Belgium. How? She was registered in the UK first. Once you are registered (and approved) in on EU country, the process is very easy to get into another, so much so that she even began nursing with absolutely rubbish French! She’s also married to a Belgian doctor, which likely helped, not because he’s a doctor, but because of EU standing. i have a Dutch passport, but I have trained in Australia. My safest bet could be to register in Ireland first (UK leaving EU soon) and even if I have to go there for some bridging courses, then so be it. Then proceed to Belgium (keep in the back of your mind, all this is to get to be able to work in France in the end!). I am genuinely interested in Belgium though. Switzerland is too expensive and Luxembourg poses language barriers that are not insurmountable but a matter of perhaps getting sidetracked.

So, currently I’m not studying much as I spend time contemplating my plans and spend time with family. Looking back, I should’ve just done IT! Nursing was sold as a job you could go anywhere with! Bullshit, utter bullshit. UK/US/CA/NZ are NOT the world you turds. Okay... so I go to A&E each evening to be further confused, have rusty skills (don’t worry, management know and I get simpler patients, i’m not looking after trauma and cardiac arrests). It’s been good for my skills.

I think in the end I’ll get out of the prison environment in the coming months, work in a hospital or two for the coming 2 years, improve my French majorly, add Dutch, apply to either Ireland first or Belgium directly and Bob’s your uncle.

That’s me of late.... aside from my moody defensive argumentative slightly political posts that I thought I wasn’t going to do. Language and politics, almost inseparable it seems. I hope everyone out there has a great festive season over Christmas and a happy new year! Gelukkig Kerstfeest en quelque chose quelque chose nieuwjaar ! à la pròxima vez!

[Xenops]

I would think that your working experience would easily make up the one of training, if that comes up. For medical lab people the U.S., there's the four year and the two year degrees, and while the two year degree is being phased out, people with that degree and with work experience are being "grandfathered in".

In short, I think you are worrying about hypotheticals, when you don't know for sure. I would pass your French test, apply to Belgium, and see what they have to say. Or even better, maybe have someone from Belgium look at your resume, and be able to give you professional advice on what you need to be competitive. But I don't know how to find such a person, so I would just apply and see what points they give you.

[PeterMollenburg]

I would think that your working experience would easily make up the one of training, if that comes up. For medical lab people the U.S., there's the four year and the two year degrees, and while the two year degree is being phased out, people with that degree and with work experience are being "grandfathered in".

In short, I think you are worrying about hypotheticals, when you don't know for sure. I would pass your French test, apply to Belgium, and see what they have to say. Or even better, maybe have someone from Belgium look at your resume, and be able to give you professional advice on what you need to be competitive. But I don't know how to find such a person, so I would just apply and see what points they give you.

Yeah a valid point. I have six years hospital experience and 2 years correctional. Likely to add more hospital experience soon. You’re right it will factor in, I had considered it but perhaps not enough. Thanks xenops.

I’ve been in contact with the kiwi nurse who works in Brussels, trying to ascertain which skills/ nursing fields are more sought after/ in shortage, but unfortunately she doesn’t seem to be getting back to me as she stated. She might yet, but in the meantime, I’ll keep digging.

[basica]

Good luck with it, like Xenops has stated your work experience should factor in considerably. Any particular reason you're waiting a while before applying though? Surely a C1 level in French would be enough to work in a Walloon area?

EDIT: Misread your currently level, ignore.

[PeterMollenburg]

Good luck with it, like Xenops has stated your work experience should factor in considerably. Any particular reason you're waiting a while before applying though? Surely a C1 level in French would be enough to work in a Walloon area?

EDIT: Misread your currently level, ignore.

Hey basica, thanks for dropping by. You’ve prompted me to elaborate a little anyway.

For nurses who have trained outside the EU, Norway or Switzerland, the general rule is, to be able to gain employment in one of those countries you must provide proof of, or be able to pass a test to the level of B2. I have a B2 in French, passed in May this year, thus no drama. I’m very pleased about that Still, my desire to pass a B2 in French was not about nursing, it was about loving the language, but I also have ambitions to live and work in a francophone country, so it did become a necessity by default.

For those with EU citizenship AND having trained within the EU/Switz/NO, then the language level is lowered. I am not sure what happens here whether the law is different for each country, or whether it’s a professional standard, or even just a job by job selection criteria set by the employer at the time. I have seen agencies advertising for work in Belgium in aged care asking that nurses applying have at least a B1 level of French and for Flemish/Dutch an A2 minimum. Much lower than B2. And since the NZ nurse I have been in contact with stated her French was poor, it also seems that non-EU/Switz/NO trained nurses can fall under the same more lax rules only once they have their nursing qualfications deemed equivalent in any one European country.

Theoretically therefore, I could get a job in Belgium, then go and work in -insert random European country- with only requiring a much lower level of local language ability. I don’t necessarily advocate poor language ability for nurses in Europe, this is just a point of interest. It would mean I could go and work in -random European country- and work hard on location to raise my language level as opposed to studying harder and longer outside the country.

Why C1? I want to get there from a language perspective because I’ve had this aim for a long time: to reach C1 (maybe C2) in French before returning to study another/more language(s). And now I have the extra motivation in that I feel it will look pretty awesome from an employer perspective as well to have an Australian nurse speaking excellent advanced French when applying for a nursing position in Belgium. That can only help my chances of employment and diminish the likelihood of having to do a considerably longer conversion course (they seem to stipulate how much of a ‘gap’ you may have in your ability to function in the European country in question by a combination of educational background, experience, assessment of nursing skills and language ability). From a plethora of blogs I’ve read on such topics, the better your language skills, the more confidence they’ll have in you and the more chance you’ll have of passing any form of assessment if required.

If I do end up in the favourable position of being able to bring my Dutch up to a higher level again (post French), this will only help me in terms of gaining employment in Belgium too. And in contrast to doing further nursing studies here in Australia, I have a buring desire to pass those French exams so that I can power through some Dutch again and bring it up to scratch. That’s the long and the short of it

EDIT: Also the reason for the wait is financial. With a family expenses are higher, so saving takes longer and on arrival we want to have a bit of room to move. And thanks for the ‘good luck’!

[rdearman]

Personally I think you should just packup and move. You appear to have all the qualifications you need. You might have to go alaone first and family follow, but moving overseas means that kinda stress. BTW the uk is crying out for care nurses, you could register here and " move back" to holland with your Dutch passport.