tak sadar aku dirayu setan

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Adrianslont
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:22 am

Xmmm wrote:Indonesian Films

1. The Look of Silence
2. The Raid: Redemption

: 2 / 200 Films

That looks like a bookmark, note to self?

Anyway, I saw a movie I really liked not long ago called “Janji Joni” which would probably best be described as a romcom - not much rom though. Basically it’s a day in the life of a motorcycle delivery boy. Reasonably funny and well made with a rocking - not dangdut - soundtrack. Lots of slang but here’s a link with English subs if you are interested.
https://youtu.be/TOyHmaMyoRQ
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:37 am

Adrianslont wrote:Anyway, I saw a movie I really liked not long ago called “Janji Joni” which would probably best be described as a romcom - not much rom though. Basically it’s a day in the life of a motorcycle delivery boy. Reasonably funny and well made with a rocking - not dangdut - soundtrack. Lots of slang but here’s a link with English subs if you are interested.
https://youtu.be/TOyHmaMyoRQ


Just saw it. It's a great film. Thanks!
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 pm

This is the first time I've participated in a 6WC challenge and I've already learned a couple of things.

You have to have enough learning material lined up.

I was thinking the challenge would help me finish the remaining 44 lessons of learningindonesian, but that's really only 22 hours of material ... less that a week's worth in challenge terms.

It helps to be an A2 instead of an A0.

I entered the challenge as an A0 with 12 hours of study and 455 words in Anki. Now I'm scrambling to fill in my study hours by doing two learningindonesian lessons a day, by doing GLOSS, and by trying to watch some Indonesian films. But of course I get very little out of the films. They are virtually incomprehensible to me.

So rather than 'waste' the time watching films, I do more GLOSS. But then my Anki deck fills up faster. My anki deck now has close to 900 words (incl. machine gun, caterpillar, steam ironing, and prayer rug) and I'm already well over the limit of the number of words I can possibly learn per day. I'm maxed out on vocabulary work.

It seems like my only option at this juncture is to take on "The Indonesian Way", an online comprehensive course full of grammar and exercises and all that sort of nonsense. It promises 113 lessons which take 3 hours each to complete, so that might finally be enough material. So that's really the main lesson:

If your level is too low to go for native content, then find some mega-course to plow through, instead of scrambling around look for little A0 things to do.
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Adrianslont » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:38 am

Yes, this an issue for Indonesian and other languages that don’t have the wealth of resources that “major” languages have.

I haven’t studied with The Indonesian Way myself - it looks pretty good as far as these kinds of courses go - I’ve scanned through it - but I’m not a fan of grammar exercises either and I find I can learn Indo grammar pretty well from input.

Yes, movies are generally too hard for beginners in any language and Indonesian is pretty diglossic - movies are full of Javanese slang, different pronouns, particles from Chinese dialects - waduh! You might have noticed in my posts that I am a fan of Thomas dan Teman Teman - Thomas the Tank Engine cartoons. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea but I prefer them to anime (several of which are also available in Indonesian dubs eg Ghosts in School and a soccer one - can’t remember the name, Captain something). The Thomas cartoons are easier to understand because of clearer speech and language and have many more words per minute than anime so more learning per minute. They are basically morality tales - some can be quite funny and charming - others a bit dull. Certainly the concrete language has proved very helpful when I’ve been directing taxi drivers around Indonesia and they don’t know where they are going! Anyway, there is a YouTube channel called Pengawas Gendut that some hours of them if you want to try them for extensive viewing.

The other thing that I found useful and accessible - and I started it after doing 75% of the Linguaphone course - is Bahasa Inggeris untuk Studi di Australia from Radio Australia. It’s out there for free of the web 26 x 25 minute episodes IIRC. They all have transcripts which is gold - it gives you so much support for the audio - except for episode 1, they uploaded the wrong document! And they all have worksheets - which I didn’t bother with but you may like. It’s a course for Indonesians to learn English but works really well the other way around! It’s definitely accessible from A2 or A1 if you are keen.

Those resources may or may not be your cup of tea but I found them more inviting than The Indonesian Way. I feel a bit guilty about that because a lot of work has gone into The Indonesian Way and I’ve heard one of its authors, George Quinn, is a really great guy - and I’ve heard him interviewed and it seems he is.

One more thing, Indonesian movies are a lot more accessible if you can get hold of DVDs - movies made in the last ten years approximately nearly all have both Indonesian and English’s subs and the Indo subs are word for word the same as the spoken dialogue - I wish the French did that, too! Though they would still be difficult and the quality of Indo films is not so great generally.
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Expugnator » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:15 am

Another beginner here, and another language we have in common, Xmmm. I'm about to finish the first level of Indonesianpod101 , which I always use as a warm-up for my new opaque languages and I wonder what to do next. The Indonesian Way seems better at A2ish levels. Will check Indonesianonline .
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Axon » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:06 pm

I've been taking an Indonesian course in Yogyakarta for two months now. I'm a big fan of self-learning, but honestly I have a hard time coming up with good ways to learn this language outside of an immersion environment. That is to say, as you folks have found there isn't a ton of great course content. Even in the university libraries that's the case...

A lot of nonfiction has been translated to Indonesian and is readily available in bookstores. There's an interesting genre of travel literature geared toward Muslim travelers, for instance Keliling Asia, Memburu Cahaya by Tari Lestari. It's a very short read about the author's experiences as a Muslim solo female traveler going to non-Muslim countries in Asia.

Hands down I recommend the LINE Kamus Inggris dictionary app. Native speakers generally agree with the example sentences, and I find myself relying on it a lot in my course.

I've only seen one Indonesian movie in country so far, called Negeri Dongeng. It's a documentary about a group of mountaineers trying to scale the highest peaks in Indonesia. It's pretty gripping just from the visuals. The theaters in Yogya don't have subtitles. :D

If my presence in the country can be of service to your learning in any way, feel free to ask!
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:26 pm

I think learningindonesian.com is a very good introduction, but it gets basic pretty fast. I'm on lesson #50 of 72 and wanting to be over with already.

For "The Indonesian Way" I'm afraid I only got to lesson #4 before terminal boredom set in. :(

I haven't paid for IndonesianPod101 yet. I probably will, but I wanted to give GLOSS a try. GLOSS is great! It's not super interesting but there's a ton of material. And everything's relative, I guess. If Indonesian doesn't have a lot of resources, GLOSS starts to look pretty good.

Axon, are there any bookstores in Indonesia that sell online? There don't seem to be many or any Indonesian kindle books anywhere. And Amazon's selection of paperbacks is really limited (Agatha Christie and romance novels). I know there is real Indonesian literature. I can see recommendations on goodreads. But I can't find such books anywhere for sale.
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Adrianslont » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:49 pm

Guys - I don’t know if you know but Assimil has an Indonesian course with a French base. I didn’t do it in a thorough way because I had already done (75%) of Linguaphone and moved on to struggling with easy native materials. I did however read/listen through about thirty lessons and listened to more in the car. It’s not bad - the only other Assimil course I’ve used is french with ease and it’s similar quality. My french isn’t great but I found it quite useable. It’s beginner material that provides a different approach to the monolith of The Indonesian Way.

Books? If in country, Gramedia is the shop to go to. They also have a web site but it only shows a fraction of their stock. You can shop online but I think only in Indonesia and you can’t see the range of stock anyway! Yogyakarta has three branches and I visited the one on Jln Jenderal Sudirman, which is supposed to be the best branch in town.

I have spent hours looking for booksellers who deliver overseas with no luck. I should ask my local library where they get theirs from as they have Indo books. I’ve had a couple of trips there in the last couple of years and have stocked up when there.

Ebooks? I just did a quick google that found a media article that said Gramedia was going to start selling them in 2016 but I can’t find any evidence that that has happened yet.

I only had a very quick look at Gloss years ago Xmmm, but if you want to go that way, also consider using Readlang/LWT/Lingq with articles you find in the web. There is lots of Indonesian journalism both serious and light on the web - try metrotv or vice indonesia maybe. Metrotv also streams lots of tv.

Axon, I also noticed lots of biographies of local political figures in Gramedia! I enjoyed a couple of weeks in Yogyakarta earlier this year - it’s not a bad town - I liked the student vibe - but I really enjoyed getting out of town into the hills of Central Java where it was cooler and less hectic. If you haven’t done so already, I recommend it - Dieng Plateau is nice for a weekend.
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Daristani » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 am

Given the lack of materials for Indonesian cited in this thread, I thought I'd mention some DLI materials that people may not be aware of.

The Yojik website has some Indonesian materials with audio here:

https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/language ... esian.html

But a member of the old HTLAL forum, Fat_Tony, had also several years ago uploaded what I think was a DIFFERENT and very comprehensive DLI Indonesian basic course with audio. I had downloaded it at the time, but the thumb-drive I'd put it on is no longer functional. A very helpful online friend also had a copy, though, and has recently uploaded it here:

Books: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s7qw40bzk ... _Texts.rar

Audio: http://www.mediafire.com/file/l63zszc3b ... _Audio.rar

Refresher course (texts only as no audio was uploaded with this): http://www.mediafire.com/file/l5xeedyhw ... Course.rar
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:24 pm

I downloaded the DLI course that Daristani provided links for and did the first three lessons:

The Good

1. audio is pretty good. Still some crackle and hiss but much better than FSI Spanish or Modern Russian.
2. the course looks like your typical comprehensive FSI/DLI course. I would guess total vocabulary is at least 2500 words if not more. On lesson 3 I was doing "This is a wall lamp", "this is a table lamp", "that is a rifle", "that is a cannon" and "no, I'm not a student, I'm a professor."

The Bad

1. The reason why there are 29 hours of audio instead of 59 is because apparently they didn't record any of the pattern drills. Dialogues yes, repetition drills, yes, vocabulary, yes ... pattern drills, no. They kind of sketch out what the pattern drills are in the notes, and then just put "continue on with the other lesson vocabulary!". But for self study, I'm not sure if there is any value to making up my own pattern drills with no audio feedback or answer key.

2. Maybe the Indonesian language has changed a bit over the last 45 years? I see they are using "saudara" a lot and recommend it for foreigners to use, but in GLOSS, learningindonesian, and all the movies I only hear "anda" and "kamu". So far I don't think this is a major problem ...

The Conclusion

Even with caveats, this still looks pretty good. You can't do "drill and kill" with it, but it's more comprehensive than learningindonesian.com and more organized than GLOSS.



edit: fix typo
Last edited by Xmmm on Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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