New auxlang: Atlas

[crush]

Well, yeah, we currently only have the 500 or so roots plus whatever words have been added in the last column of the dictionary. However, many of those words are covered by variations of the root, we will of course have to add them in manually since English is less regular in its word formation than Atlas. Also, many of those words are synonyms with more or less the same main meaning (large/big, too/also/as well, etc.) so can be captured easily enough with one Atlas root. And i think the computer translation issue is more an issue with English than with Atlas But yes, i definitely agree that we need to flesh out the vocabulary of Atlas a ton before it can really start to be useful as a communication tool. If you know all 500+ roots you shouldn't have too much of an issue creating a text of your own, but with everyone making their own compound words up it'd be a bit messy.

[Rodiniye]

OK I have done a post on permanent/non-permanent aspect. I really like how it looks like. As I said, next week I'll do countries.

Blog updated too with new pop-up dictionary and news.

As always, your contributions are greatly appreciated.

here is the list of the 427 words:

Most of those words can be achieved with the basic roots (variations of), or are in the grammar (adverbs, etc)

But yes, i definitely agree that we need to flesh out the vocabulary of Atlas a ton before it can really start to be useful as a communication tool.

I agree, but the first goal should be basic communication, and I think we have that covered.

There is no rush to achieve extra words. However, the quicker they are included, the better, of course. But I do not think Atlas needs a huge amount of words to start with. Covering those 1000, or even 2000 most common words, and probably a few more coming from translated texts should be fine to start with. The mechanisms put in place in order to create words should be there when people need them, be it to create or decypher new words. Having everyone creating their own words would be mad if the language had a thousand speakers, but it is not a problem we have at the moment So there is no big rush. Communication and translations can be done effectively, and then have new words coming from those incoporated to the dictionary(es) slowly.

hour (qe), etc.

Just want to point out "qe" is a particle meaning "o'clock"

Many of those words are already in the main roots, i believe. For example:

This is what I meant. Very good point.

In any case, I'm glad that the new grammar has "ik" for adverbs, plus the other changes.

I don't know how you got the old version, the "new" one has been there for a while now! There are only a couple of things that need updating.

[tommus]

Most of those words can be achieved with the basic roots (variations of), or are in the grammar (adverbs, etc)

I agree. The point I am making is that Atlas is going to have to rely heavily on computer applications if it is going to achieve any significant amount of participation by the language learning community. And computers (those without an impressive artificial intelligence ability) cannot be expected to figure out how things can be achieved using imaginative variations of basic roots. Therefore these variations need to be figured out for the computers. But I agree that all this will take time. But I do believe that, at some stage in the Atlas development, things like these variations have to be fleshed out. I think it is a price that has to be paid in a language with very limited root words.

[tommus]

More "derived roots" completed, and some observations.

I have now completed over 1000 of the 8417 derived roots. I think a general statement can be made:

Almost all of the logical suffiixes that can be put on roots will produce a derived root that has the correct English translation. Example: cit (eat) generates citit (ate), citis (eats), citiz (will eat). However, if a writer uses illogical suffixes, the reader using a popup dictionary will get an illogical translation. However, it is not possible to 100% determine just which suffixes are indeed logical. Some may at first appear illogical, but the writer may well have had a logical construction. For example, the English noun "cave". If a writer adds a verb suffix to make a derived root that means "caves", many readers may think of that as an illogical verb. But the expression "he caves" is a valid one meaning "he caves in" or "he finally agrees" or even "he explores caves". So it would be impossible to "a priori" 100% determine what is logical or not. In most cases, you'd probably be right that something is totally illogical. But I don't think that is necessary for a dictionary that is embedded in an application and responds just to legitimate or supposedly legitimate Atlas derived roots. So I am leaving most of the computer generated translations as is. Most of the "corrections" are for the verb tenses of legitimate verbs which are more straight forward.

Some observations:

bemi (joint, together). Can that be made into the verbs bemes (join), bemiz (will join), etc?

besi (big). Can that be made into the verb beses (enlarge), besit (will enlarge), etc? Atlas already has vases (grow) but there may be times when enlarge is better than grow. And in Atlas, you can always derive words even if a similar word exists.

A more difficult one:
binu (building)
nires (build). Perhaps "nires" is unnecessary and bines (build) is OK?

And a note on English adjectives and adverbs with "ly":
Sometimes adding an "ly" to an adjective makes an adverb. He builds large houses. He largely builds ships.
However, in "He earned a goodly amount of money", goodly is an adjective. Also an adjective "brotherly love", "motherly care", etc. These issues come up in editing the "derived roots".

[Rosen]

I've mostly been reading this thread, sorry for not participating very much in the discussion. Has this language been advertised on other language/linguistics boards, like Zompist and the like?

[Rodiniye]

I've mostly been reading this thread, sorry for not participating very much in the discussion. Has this language been advertised on other language/linguistics boards, like Zompist and the like?

Not yet really, only CBB and I know some people have posted things in a few forums around the world, but I am not monitoring them (I know at least 1 Russian, 1 French).

Advertising it properly will come soon now that Atlas has reached a good level of maturity.

Welcome!

[Rodiniye]

bemi (joint, together). Can that be made into the verbs bemes (join), bemiz (will join), etc?

besi (big). Can that be made into the verb beses (enlarge), besit (will enlarge), etc? Atlas already has vases (grow) but there may be times when enlarge is better than grow. And in Atlas, you can always derive words even if a similar word exists.

Of course! that's precisely one of the big features for Atlas, that all roots can be turned into what you like using the appropiate suffixes!

binu (building)
nires (build). Perhaps "nires" is unnecessary and bines (build) is OK?

"binu" and "nires" come from different ideas. "niru" would be a "construction, building", whatever has been built. So a bridge can be a "niru", or an airport, or a tunnel...

"binu" is a building properly speaking. So every "binu" is a "niru", but not every "niru" is a "binu".

Does it make sense? hope so!

[tommus]

New 2017-09-12 Atlas Popup Dictionary V4.0:

New feature: It will now translate complete Atlas sentences and paragraphs into English. To do that, in the middle blue area, highlight the sentences or paragraph that you want to translate into English. Then click "Sentence(s) Translation" on the top menu bar. The Atlas words plus their English translations will appear in the bottom right blue area in a vertical column. Scroll down to see everything.

I have put the paragraphs about the hurricane and about Barcelona in the default text. Below that are some other words to experiment with. The brownish orange area (English Word) is for finding possible Atlas words from English words. All the previous functions should work also.

Link to the new version:

2017-09-12 Atlas Popup Dictionary V4.0

On a related note, I have now completed 2000 of the 8417 "derived roots". When completed, I will incorporate them into a future version of the popup dictionary and they will provide a more accurate English translation of the various forms of words derived from roots.

[tommus]

binu (building)
nires (build). Perhaps "nires" is unnecessary and bines (build) is OK?

"binu" and "nires" come from different ideas. "niru" would be a "construction, building", whatever has been built. So a bridge can be a "niru", or an airport, or a tunnel...

"binu" is a building properly speaking. So every "binu" is a "niru", but not every "niru" is a "binu".

Does it make sense? hope so!

Yes. Just to understand this completely:

If I were building a building, I obviously could or maybe should use the verb "nires", but could I also use the verb "bines"?

In fact, for building a building, would not "bines" be more accurate?

[Rodiniye]

Yes. Just to understand this completely:

If I were building a building, I obviously could or maybe should use the verb "nires", but could I also use the verb "bines"?

In fact, for building a building, would not "bines" be more accurate?

Yes you could use "bines" for building a building, or "nires", both would be acceptable I think!

On a related note, I have now completed 2000 of the 8417 "derived roots". When completed, I will incorporate them into a future version of the popup dictionary and they will provide a more accurate English translation of the various forms of words derived from roots.

Nice job, I am very thankful, as always!