Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

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Xenops
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Tackles French and Korean! (and maybe German)

Postby Xenops » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:32 am

tomgosse wrote:
Xenops wrote:For study times I have:
French: 40.4 hours
Korean: 2.6 hours

I still meet with the girl that took French in high school, and our weekly routine is to watch the French in Action video together, and then some assignments. We both noted the creeper behind Mireille with some amusement:

I was watching the same episode today, and noticed the same person in the background. I cannot tell if it is a man or woman.
mireille.jpg


It looks like a solide, costaud man with a barbe, and glasses, and a receding hairline. But that might be my imagination.
2 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/

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Xenops
Blue Belt
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Xenops » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:56 am

I have come to the realization that I'm burned out on French in Action, and I'm burned out on Pimsleur...But not on language learning. I feel like I've had a nice break from Assimil, and I'm interested in trying it again. I'll come back to the other two, but I need a break (plus, my study partner wants to catch up on her FiA exercises). I might also do away with times studied: it hampers me a bit, because rather than fitting in tiny pieces of language study throughout the day, I feel I need to make blocks of time, which I don't have on a regular basis.

Today I linked to Gabriel Wyner's method on Facebook [url="http://lifehacker.com/5903288/i-learned-to-speak-four-languages-in-a-few-years-heres-how"]here[/url] and it just reminds me of a burning desire I've had lately: I don't want to be stuck in a beginner or intermediate level for years and years. I was stuck in an intermediate level in Spanish for probably a decade, and it was just enough to do basic communication, but not enough to actually enjoy the language. I don't have an appreciation to tackle Spanish right now, but I want faster progress with French. So I'll use Assimil and Anki cards.

I've also started doing Duolingo again; it's easy, brainless way to get language exposure.

Korean hasn't moved much lately: school has been crazy. But tomorrow starts spring break! Yay!
Last edited by Xenops on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
5 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/

User avatar
Xenops
Blue Belt
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Xenops » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:17 pm

I have been working regularly with putting words into Anki. I'm taking words from earlier Assimil lessons, reviewing the material with the words and looking at the leçons. I look back at the early lessons, and I realize I've picked up more than I thought. :shock: Amazing!

For the cards, I use the Wyner format: the cards have sound, pictures and the written word. I also try to either pronounce them before I click the answer, or after I hear the answer, or both. I also repeat the word as I make the cards.

I was looking at ways to use Assimil on the old forum, and found a useful post by Rout:

Rout wrote:
QiuJP wrote:Firstly, I will copy the lesson in the target language at least once. As I often use
Assimil only I have completed grammar and vocabulary intensive courses that led to the
equivalent of B1 level of the CEFR, I do not need to write down the vocabulary used in
the lesson. However, if Assimil is the first course to be used for learning my target
language, I need to write down the vocabulary after copying the main text. After that,
I proceed with the lesson as suggested by the book: to listen, to shadow and understand
the text. I realised that if I do not write out the text (and vocabulary if necessary),
I do not learn much from the method, despite constant reinforcement from the later
lessons and the revisions from the method. However, I do not think I am using Assimil
effectively.

What do you think of my style of using Assimil and what are the main concerns regarding
my use of Assimil?


You say these are additional steps, but what are your initial steps for approaching the dialogs? Just using the method prescribed in the book (active wave, passive wave, etc.)?

Just to add to EMK's excellent advice for checking your progress, if you're not "assimil"-ating the language "with ease" then that doesn't mean that the book doesn't deliver on its promises or that the methods you're using are bogus - you just have to experiment until you find what fits your style. If, in particular, you're having problems retaining the vocabulary you've learned from the dialogs (despite its strategic introduction and reintroduction of vocabulary at such intervals that intentional review is not normally necessary), then you could do something more systematic whereby several reviews of each lesson are built into your approach.

What you're doing sounds okay for remembering individual vocabulary words (i.e. writing out the unknown words), but I find that when I "overlearn" material or at least learn vocabulary with respect to meaningful context, it more readily enters my long term memory. So if you find you're still not retaining what you'd like, might I suggest the prescription made by Dr. Argüelles.

To boil it down to the main points: at any one time you'll be studying/reviewing around ten lessons. The three newest lessons you'll be blind shadowing, the three after that you'll be shadowing while reading L1 and slowly transitioning to reading in L2, in the next three you'll be reading mainly in L2, and once you can understand everything without referring back to L1 the lesson is ready to write out and analyze by means of the scriptorium technique. At this point you can read all the grammar notes, as well. Add one lesson a day and once you've finished the entire text in this fashion type the whole thing out (double spaced) and read it, penciling in unknown words. As you continue to read through this, erase the penciled-in words when you can remember their meanings without looking them up. When you've finished, you can go on a "shadowing march" and shadow through the entire book in hour long chunks. After this you can play the dialogs in the background at which point it will not just be "noise" - you will understand everything. After this you should have an excellent grasp of the language and will be ready to move onto to other materials.

There are other approaches, but this approach is the most thorough I've found for simultaneously learning, digesting, and reviewing Assimil. If this sounds interesting to you then I suggest you watch the video (linked above) and take notes. If, on the other hand, it seems like a little too much work (when spaced out properly, it's really not) then you may want to at least check out some of Dr. Argüelles's other excellent videos if you haven't already.


The original post is here: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33502&KW=assimil+using
The Arguelles video is here: https://youtu.be/130bOvRpt24

My enthusiasm for Korean has dried up at the moment. :( If it comes back, I know of good materials to use. At the moment I want to charge ahead with French, and maybe work on other European languages that would be useful. French is my priority for now, though.
5 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/

jeffers
Orange Belt
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2612
x 284

Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby jeffers » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:43 pm

I'm just posting to say Bonjour. Your log looks interesting, and I'll be following your progress in French.
2 x
Fr books: 7 / 100films: 90 / 200
De books: 1 / 50films: 6 / 50
Hi books: 0 / 50films: 2 / 50
Gr books: 0 / 50films: 0 / 50

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Xenops
Blue Belt
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Xenops » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:36 pm

I have been making reasonable progress this week. :D As I mentioned before, I have been looking at Professor Arguelles' methods of using Assimil. A concern of mine cropped up: if I'm done with Pimsleur for the time being, how do I practice pronunciation? The answer: shadowing! I do cheat, and look at the text first: I can't stand trying to repeat something when I don't know how it's spelled. So I'm going back over New French with Ease and shadowing until I can get the pronunciation and the timing the same as the actors. I also found the Assimil from 1940 with the audio, and while the dialogues aren't entertaining, I like the presentation of the verb conjugations better.

I started intensive reading of the 1910 Louis Segond translation of Psaumes, since this is a Biblical book that I'm very familiar with, and because it has mostly present tense, which is where I'm at right now.

For Anki, I've been doing about 7-11 new words each day, either from the Assimil courses, Psaumes, or previous French in Action chapters.

For exposure, I finished Wakfu's season two. It wasn't as good as the first season, but it was satisfying enough. This week I got into Les Revenants, and I confess I normally don't watch shows with so much adult content. :? There's a reason I tend to stick to anime and cartoons. :lol: Though for some reason this show bothers me less than Engrenages. I think because there is a sense of right and wrong in Revenants, and there are likable characters, both of which I found absent in Engrenages. The first season of Revenants I found very engaging, as there is a sense of mystery and foreboding that I loved. I read reviews that the second season isn't as good, and I can understand why: there is no sense of expediency like in the first season. It also strongly reminds me of one of my very favorite animes, Another:

Image

I also started a practice which I did when learning Spanish in high school: writing stories in Spanglish or Frenglish. I write with the words that I already know, and try to limit how much I look up new words (it's hard to resist!). If I don't know a word, I write the English one. Later I can look up words, but not during the actual writing. I was surprised at how much I already knew:

Image

I think that's all for now!
4 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/

jeffers
Orange Belt
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2612
x 284

Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby jeffers » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:29 pm

I was thinking of suggesting to you to read the Bible in French, and you're doing just that. If you look around you should be able to find audio of the Bible as well.

Similarly, there are a couple French music artists who are Christian and you might enjoy. Yohan Salvat had a short album called Les larmes du ciel which sounds a bit like Muse. Here's an example: https://youtu.be/5h95QrcEArw. I don't have his new album yet, but listening to samples it sounds a lot more "adult contemporary". There's a group called "P.U.S.H." (I don't know what the letters stand for) who have an interesting Christmas album (but I can't find it on Amazon anymore). Here's an example: https://youtu.be/ayCZeSqMYtk.
1 x
Fr books: 7 / 100films: 90 / 200
De books: 1 / 50films: 6 / 50
Hi books: 0 / 50films: 2 / 50
Gr books: 0 / 50films: 0 / 50

DaveBee
Blue Belt
Posts: 765
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:49 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (native). French (studying).
x 999

Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby DaveBee » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:44 pm

Xenops wrote: I think because there is a sense of right and wrong in Revenants, and there are likable characters, both of which I found absent in Engrenages.
I had a similar problem with Braquo, I thought they were all bad eggs! I shall have to look at this Revenants programme. :-)
2 x
FR films: 58 / 100, FR books: 35 / 35

User avatar
Xenops
Blue Belt
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Xenops » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:35 pm

jeffers wrote:I was thinking of suggesting to you to read the Bible in French, and you're doing just that. If you look around you should be able to find audio of the Bible as well.

Similarly, there are a couple French music artists who are Christian and you might enjoy. Yohan Salvat had a short album called Les larmes du ciel which sounds a bit like Muse. Here's an example: https://youtu.be/5h95QrcEArw. I don't have his new album yet, but listening to samples it sounds a lot more "adult contemporary". There's a group called "P.U.S.H." (I don't know what the letters stand for) who have an interesting Christmas album (but I can't find it on Amazon anymore). Here's an example: https://youtu.be/ayCZeSqMYtk.


I have been able to find audio for the Louis Segond; I listen to it, but it's going a bit fast for me to shadow it. ;)

Ooh! Thank you! :mrgreen: I am finding it hard to discover Christian French artists. I did discover Louise Zbinden:

2 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/

Atinkoriko
Orange Belt
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:31 pm
Location: England
Languages: English (N)
Ibibio (N)
West African Pidgin English/Guinea Coast Creole[N]
Actively learning
German B2?
French B1-B2?
Spanish B1?
Russian A1?

Active dabbling
Japanese




WISH I HAD TIME: Mandarin Chinese, Ancient Greek, Latin, Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs, Italian
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5594
x 369

Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Atinkoriko » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:41 pm

Xenops wrote:I have been making reasonable progress this week. :D As I mentioned before, I have been looking at Professor Arguelles' methods of using Assimil. A concern of mine cropped up: if I'm done with Pimsleur for the time being, how do I practice pronunciation? The answer: shadowing! I do cheat, and look at the text first: I can't stand trying to repeat something when I don't know how it's spelled. So I'm going back over New French with Ease and shadowing until I can get the pronunciation and the timing the same as the actors. I also found the Assimil from 1940 with the audio, and while the dialogues aren't entertaining, I like the presentation of the verb conjugations better.

I started intensive reading of the 1910 Louis Segond translation of Psaumes, since this is a Biblical book that I'm very familiar with, and because it has mostly present tense, which is where I'm at right now.

For Anki, I've been doing about 7-11 new words each day, either from the Assimil courses, Psaumes, or previous French in Action chapters.

For exposure, I finished Wakfu's season two. It wasn't as good as the first season, but it was satisfying enough. This week I got into Les Revenants, and I confess I normally don't watch shows with so much adult content. :? There's a reason I tend to stick to anime and cartoons. :lol: Though for some reason this show bothers me less than Engrenages. I think because there is a sense of right and wrong in Revenants, and there are likable characters, both of which I found absent in Engrenages. The first season of Revenants I found very engaging, as there is a sense of mystery and foreboding that I loved. I read reviews that the second season isn't as good, and I can understand why: there is no sense of expediency like in the first season. It also strongly reminds me of one of my very favorite animes, Another:

Image

I also started a practice which I did when learning Spanish in high school: writing stories in Spanglish or Frenglish. I write with the words that I already know, and try to limit how much I look up new words (it's hard to resist!). If I don't know a word, I write the English one. Later I can look up words, but not during the actual writing. I was surprised at how much I already knew:

Image

I think that's all for now!



That's a great idea, writing the stories and worrying about vocab later. Would help you identify the holes in your vocab and also force you to output, something I've failed to do in all my languages unfortunately :(

And I've been using Professor Arguelles's method for a while. I find that the burning desire to find out what the word sounds like usually helps to seal it in my mind once I finally see it.

Good luck. Will continue following this log :)
4 x
: 50 / 2000 Remembering the Kanji :
: 33 / 75 SpanishFilms Half SC :
: 45 / 124 German without Toil Active wave :
: 3 / 100 Assimil Japanese with Ease :
: 27 / 100 Russian without Toil :

User avatar
Xenops
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Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), French (A2), Japanese (rusty A2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?p=48718#p48718
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Re: Xenops Mostly Tackles French (and some other languages)

Postby Xenops » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:39 pm

I've got lots of stuff done, but I might need to pause, or slow the pace to just Anki cards: my semester is wrapping up, and I lots of assignments! Augh!

First of all, check out my latest pronunciation attempt: https://soundcloud.com/hestia-edwards/assimil-3rd-lecon Feedback is welcome. :)

I finished both seasons of Les Revenants within a week (granted, there's only 16 episodes).
Image

I had read reviews that the second season wasn't very good: au contraire, I thought it wrapped up wonderfully. :shock: Maybe the nay-sayers wanted definitive answers to everything. :lol: If it didn't have so much adult material in the first season, I would sing its praises all over the Internet. I can easily say it's the best interpretation of zombies I've seen yet (for best interpretation of vampires, I recommend the anime Shiki).

There was a three-episode special of Wakfu following season two, and man was the writing sloppy. Except for a couple of things that would surely be important in season three, I do not recommend it.

Lately I've been working on Anki cards, and and taking French in Action audio and making Cloze cards.
Image

I'm also taking vocabulary and making cards. With verbs, what I do is find a picture of the present tense conjugation, and plug in the verb tenses pronunciation via one of these sites:

https://www.frenchspanishonline.com/beginnersfrench/frenchverbs.html
http://www.audiofrench.com/verbs/verbes_index.htm

I should go and do something useful now. Au revoir!
2 x
: 32 / 113 Assimil New French with Ease
: 7 / 52 French in Action


Check out my comic at: http://rosamondgrey.smackjeeves.com/


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