Le Baron wrote:And that is different from the French promoting French as a means for mass communication in what way? Don't you find it odd that promotion of French where it isn't being taken up as a choice is considered legitimate, whereas an idea to promote a well-functioning neutral language as a tool of communication is portrayed as a sort of pipe-dream and 'hope'?
Not really. French has some traction to back up this claim, even if is nothing like English at the moment. Esperanto...is a product of ideas. When I was a kid, I thought humanity united under a single banner is the most logical idea for further development and expansion beyond planetary borders. A common language was, obviously, a natural choice. I still believe that, the difference is that I know I won't live to witness such thing (and that is also a great difference between a willingly united humanity and a forcibly united one). And that is a secondary effect of getting older and learning more about how society works. Probably a bit of cynicism thrown into the mixture as well. So, yes, dreams and hopes, nothing wrong with these as long as they are recognized for what they are.
Le Baron wrote:LupCenușiu wrote:[i]Anyway, feel free to elaborate on the baffling and potentially insulting parts. While I don't have the personal stakes you seem to insert in the dialogue, I'm not in some sort of mocking position either. After all, I allocated some time (minimal, as it is) to learn that language.
I don't really care for the way you are couching this though 'Personal stakes' as though I am some sort of cult member or nutter.
I just don't want to sit back whilst people pass off vacuous commentary as considered evaluation.
I was merely noticing the register of your answers, without passing any judgments. Also, I'm not the one with the cult comparison. If anything, I'd go with crusader or stalwart defender imagery. But, anyway, judicious use of emotion spending over internet argumentations is always advisable. In theory at least
Le Baron wrote:Nowhere in language learning do we encounter people who are learning e.g. Spanish, German, Russian etc and are at A1, A2, passing comment as to tidying-up problems, as though they are masters of the language. Whereas folk dabble in Esperanto, learn the question words and five minutes later are proposing a full-blown thesis about how it needs to be 'improved' or destroyed, or how it has 'failed'. Where does the boldness come from? Could it be that in 'natural' languages the natives couldn't give two hoots what the average L2 learner's opinions are? And that the L2 learner needs to fall into line or toddle off?
Good question. I'm yet to see such a thesis, but I assume that is a widely spread idea that Esperanto is not a "true" language. While it is a conlang, it is also the one that thrived amongst the other of its kind, and that's remarkable per se. Also, I guess some people simply dislike other aspects they tend to connect (more or less justified) with this language . Again, I'm not in the position to explain that, as I don't share these views. I already explained why I believe no colang (not even Esperanto) will ever reach the universal language status. Except maybe in some dystopian developments of society, uniting the humanity through coercive meanings or something.
Le Baron wrote:STT44's position is typical of many people. A persistent desire to seek out and chip in where Esperanto is mentioned, as if it is a reaction against HMS Esperanto going about trying to press gang people into learning. If I were to start a thread about seriously promoting the rebirth of Latin as the major lingua franca, people might think me naive, but not to the point where they would start posting with a clever little avuncular titter as though they're addressing the whims of a child or seething with anger at the false notion that it is being forced upon them. Note well the differences. What we're seeing is an empty prejudice.
Yes, I already noticed, this is more of a tango than a chain dance. Still, an opportunity to learn some interesting combinations of words, but I don't really intend to contribute at pushing the topic towards the same way the previous one (linked here too) went.