Did the Listening-Reading method work for you?

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luke
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Re: Did the Listening-Reading method work for you?

Postby luke » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:23 am

Le Baron wrote:
luke wrote:Listen-reading is built around that mysterious notion of "acquisition".

That's true, yet you don't need to acquire your native language alongside or fool about with some book of it while listening to the audio of a book you are learning.

Some psycholinguists make distinctions between acquiring L1 (native language) and L2.

Le Baron wrote:
Aya with sentence simplification for clarification wrote:READ the translation a split second before the matching text in the recording reaches your brain and simultaneously attach that meaning to what you're hearing.

Matching written texts? Why?

Because iconic (visual sensory) memory is very short, less than 1 second.

Le Baron wrote:
luke wrote:If Juan, Vlad and Pierre can't read the text well enough, with enough extra mental bandwidth to be aware that the audio narration is expressing the exact same ideas in the language they want to learn AND mentally link their mental representation of what's happening RIGHT NOW in the text to what they're hearing RIGHT NOW, and keep that "what I'm hearing and what I'm reading are THE SAME" going, they aren't listening-reading.

Now that's interesting. Yet why? Why not listen to L1 and then immediately L2?

Because echoic (auditory sensory) memory is also very short - 3 or 4 seconds.

Listen-reading uses both of these short term memory systems simultaneously. They each have limited capacity. Reducing the load on these systems - ideally immersing into a flow state - allows the student to maintain the learning state longer.

Le Baron wrote:Shall we all agree to just leave it?

That makes sense. I've been learning more as we discuss it. Your questions are good. Especially that last one.

Experience - which is related to the word "experiments" - is often the best teacher. By learning these theoretical underpinnings and understanding the mechanisms through which listen-reading is meant to work, it may help one improve one's personal implementation of that process.
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RyanSmallwood
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Re: Did the Listening-Reading method work for you?

Postby RyanSmallwood » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:40 am

Not looking to settle anything, but happy to clarify a few genuine new points raised.
Le Baron wrote:Why not listen to L1 and then immediately L2?

I think this would be really helpful, actually, for a listening-only activity, though as luke mentions short term memory is a big factor. Ideally something that would repeat them sentence by sentence, with maybe an option for different patterns like L1, L2, L2, or L2, L1, L2. It works for stuff like the old glossika audio files, but it would be easier to focus if there was an interesting narrative. Its just that the format doesn't exist, so someone would have to take the time to create them, and if pre-prepared ones were made available it would be more limited in terms of selection. I've tried it with interleaving audiobook chapters, which kind of works, but requires a much higher language level to start with to remember such long chunks.
Le Baron wrote:Why not listen L1 audio and read L2 text.

I've tried this and it works too and a few other people including Alexander Argüelles have mentioned it. I've heard a few people refer to it as Reading-Listening whenever you're trying to learn the written language. I think its mentioned less commonly, because most people want to learn correct pronunciation first. The most obvious application is for things like learning Written Chinese from Spoken Mandarin, because knowledge of one doesn't automatically translate to knowledge of the other, so seeing them together first is helpful.
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Re: Did the Listening-Reading method work for you?

Postby sfuqua » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:36 am

I built some files that used tts voices to speak first in English and then in Spanish.
It seemed to work OK. I didn't use it much. I was thinking of glossika when I made the files.

I tried "Reading-Listening" and had trouble, because I really wasn't paying enough attention to both streams. I may not have given it a good try. :D

It seems to me that it might be a good idea to alternate R-L and L-R a few times if you have a text that is interesting enough.
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german2k01
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Re: Did the Listening-Reading method work for you?

Postby german2k01 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:15 pm

Using translation in your native language/preferable language while listening to audio in your target language. This is a really awesome part of the L-R system. Seriously, your understanding of the plot gets to improve exponentially. When the narrator's voice is merged with comprehension. Characters COME ALIVE.
I am done with Crime and Punishment as well as Notes from Underground in German. I really enjoyed both books thanks to L-R. This is my go-to method if books are really well written and gripping. My next book will be THE IDIOT.
Do you know any rival authors who come pretty close to Fyodor Dostoevsky when it comes to writing such plots?
He or she does not have to be Russian.
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