Language patzer, French

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Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:32 am

I continue happily with french. Finally I reached this part of the book where there are actual texts. Not litterature yet but we'll get there! When you are a false beginner the early stuff is boring...

Good news on my journal writing: the more I write the more easy it becomes. Still full of errors I expect, but it's ok! At least I write every day.

As for turkish, I am thinking that since I started maybe I should continue one small chapter at a time. It's not time consuming the way it's written, and but the end of the book I will have a good basis on grammar and some easy vocabulary. I'm not making a big deal out of it.
3 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
x 140

Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:37 am

I stopped for a few days due to some family obligations. The obligations won't stop, so I will have to find a way to make this work anyway. I feel like I have wasted so much time, as far as languages are concerned.
3 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
x 140

Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:39 am

I am back on track. Finally the lessons are becoming more interesting, and I revise/learn at a fast pace. I watch a lot of french tv and films.

I watched Loupin and I liked it a lot, it was fun.

As for the course I am using, it's the right choice as I like it more and more. Of course it's old, and the France it describes with such love and detail doesn't exist any longer. I wonder though if the douce France that is described isn't what french people still have in their mind when they think about their country wilth love and nostalgia. I think it still is.

I haven't done much with turkish, which is a shame really. I'll continue with that book and see where it takes me.
3 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
x 140

Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:31 am

I am back on track with french, because I took some days off. Not because I didn't have the time, but for other reasons.

Mostly I was thinking about other languages, the point of learning french, the point of learning another language at all, serching for other french books etc. Whatever. You get the idea.

I was also on a bad mood for other reasons, but I decided that all of this is simply procrastination of the worst kind: pure excuses to be lazy.

So yesterday I studied for a couple of hours and now I feel like I'm back.

Where am I now, then?
:arrow: I continue with this partucular course. It's a great course for me.
:arrow: I continue with french in action, daily. It's good oral/speaking practice, and I like the vintage style Mireille has!


Now, for the challenges:
:roll: I don't really do the excercises for each chapter, mailny because I am in a hurry to move on with these loooong books. What a mistake! A big mistake. I should really fix that, because I find myself looking for other drill books, when there are so many of them already in the course.

So, again it all boils down to why am I learning french? This matters, because it defines my behaviour towards the length of time I am willing to spend on french, in terms of months or maybe years.
If I learn because I urgently need a C2 diploma, then what I'm doing is wrong. It will take forever.
If I simply want to learn as much as possible, focusing not only in language but also in culture, then I am on the right path. It will take forever anyway, but that's great because it's a wonderful hobby, being a francophile.

We areall going through some life changing times, and I am no different. This pandemic has forced me to slow down and take a good look at my life, and I can tell you I need to do something for my self, something that has no gain other than itself. A hobby that opens doors of culture and beauty and of other peoples habits. It doesn't have to go anywhere, and, although a diploma would be great, it can't be the real goal, because it's no use to me anyway (being honest here).

I feel liberated thinking like that. No long term goal, just the daily commitment.

Daily commitment: Study from the course daily and [b]do the drills! One FIA video a day. That's the minimum, as I also watch a lot of films, documentaries, etc in french. I do write in my journal, but only small paragraphs yet.

What about other languages?Ok, stop.
3 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:59 am

I am on the path still, although a bit slower than I wish. Maybe that's my rythm, maybe I should just accept it and stop feeling guilty.

As much as I love french, I want to learn another language on the side. I'm fighting the impulse for obvious reasons, but maybe studying a new language from a brief textbook (assimil?), will help me with french boredom issues. A bit of variety without the stress. Is this wise or is this the beginning of another wandelust disaster ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2749
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Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16235
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:38 pm

Hi Language patzer,

I've just had a quick run through your log. You remind me of myself somewhat. While I can see you're trying to take the pressure off yourself by enjoying the process, I think I can see that you might do better were you to have more focus. You seem to be running out of steam or hitting a bit of burn-out. More courses and wanderlust are not going to solve this, as you're likely to loose yourself in a sea of too much work that you like the idea of completing but can't realistically commit to achieving in the predetermined (albeit roughly worked out or considered) time frame. If you have other languages you'd like to learn, focus on advancing your French so that you can get to the other languages. Adding more languages now (even just one more) can seriously steer you off track.

Perhaps you could make a list of courses you want to finish. FIA, FSI, Mauger's Cours de.... Don't make the list too long (my mistake), don't include too much easy content, you need to be stepping up continually if you want to advance. Having said that, it's doesn't hurt to double or triple up your efforts at the same level with multiple resources provided it doesn't bog you down too much. Multiple courses can tackle vocabularly and grammar from a few different angles, but overdo it and you'll get bogged down by spreading yourself too thin.

Put it this way, if you had 5 hours a day of course study time, a few beginner courses followed by a few intermediate level courses and then finally some advanced courses wouldn't hurt. This will lead to very well-rounded foundations, imo. Foundations that will help you transition smoother to native content. However if you're only studying 30 to 60 minutes a day, you might need to be harder on which courses make the cut, and it should not be many at all. Take it from me, one can easily be led astray by so many decent French courses that you get lost on the path that leads to the forest, while your actual goal is not even that forest, it's 16 villages and 8 forests beyond that. This is a bigger task than you think, and you can achieve it, just don't spend all your time doing training drills, remember you're training to actually play the game. I'm not suggesting drop courses, just keep your mission clear and the steps along the way just as clear.

If you love the idea of learning other languages (don't we all), then perhaps dedicating yourself to an allotted time on French each day before going off to either study another language for 30 min a day or reading about it in French (Wikipedia for example) so that you're still doing French study, could work. It might remind you of why you want to reach your French target. Still, I'd limit this time away from French if you choose to actively study another language, and if you only have 30 to 60 min a day for any language learning, you're best to leave it alone altogether and focus on French. Again, this is my opinion from my experiences.

Finally, I'll emphasize again that you could be at risk of getting bogged down with too many French courses (unless you put more time into it) and never reaching your goal. Get serious, get strategic, get ruthless with your study choices, get efficient, get to work! Good luck!

Still lacking motivation? Spend some days prepping for your next mission. Take a week off, but have an end date, then get serious. There's no getting around this task if you want to reach your goal, you're gonna have to go through it.

I've given you a lot of advice here, which I base this on my experience and your French advancement goals. Should your goals change, ignore the above. Should I come on too strong, toss it aside. Learning a language to an advanced level is a hell of an undertaking and it has the best of us tested, thoroughly. We are human, we get led astray, we find the task too big and so on. Take it from me, I'm yet to reach C2! You can approach this day by day, and I recommend this, but do it with particular strategic goals that you have advancing efficiently as you go.
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Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:14 pm

I can't thank you enough for your answer and the time you took to write it.

You reminded me very clearly of my goals, and I see that right now I need only one course (cours de... etc) and no other languages at present. And writing a lot more than I do now.

I have been binge watching Nicolas le Floch (again...), and leaving TV5 playing in the house.

I need to pick up my speed in a very efficient and practical way (along side the fun). I find comfort in endless drills and exercises, but you are right about that as well.


Thank you so much!
Last edited by Language patzer on Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
41/65

Language patzer
Yellow Belt
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:48 am
Languages: Greek native, English C2, French B2
x 140

Re: Language patzer, French

Postby Language patzer » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:15 pm

I'll start giving some account in this log, so that I have some sence of progress (and shame!). :)
1 x
Cours de Langue et de Civilisation Francaises
Book 1
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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2749
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16235
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:23 pm

Language patzer wrote:I can't thank you enough for your answer and the time you took to write it.

You reminded me very clearly of my goals, and I see that right now I need only one course (cours de... etc) and no other languages at present. And writing a lot more than I do now.

I have been binge watching Nicolas le Floch (again...), and leaving TV5 playing in the house.

I need to pick up my speed in a very efficient and practical way (along side the fun). I find comfort in endless drills and exercises, but you are right about that as well.


Thank you so much!


You're welcome, Language patzer. Giving you advice is ironically helping myself to do the same, that is, it reminds me to remember my goals, stay on track and apply myself. So, best of luck to the both of us! ;)
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lusan
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Re: Language patzer, French

Postby lusan » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:52 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Finally, I'll emphasize again that you could be at risk of getting bogged down with too many French courses (unless you put more time into it) and never reaching your goal. Get serious, get strategic, get ruthless with your study choices, get efficient, get to work! Good luck!
.....................
Still lacking motivation? Spend some days prepping for your next mission. Take a week off, but have an end date, then get serious. There's no getting around this task if you want to reach your goal, you're gonna have to go through it.

I've given you a lot of advice here, which I base this on my experience and your French advancement goals. Should your goals change, ignore the above. Should I come on too strong, toss it aside. Learning a language to an advanced level is a hell of an undertaking and it has the best of us tested, thoroughly. We are human, we get led astray, we find the task too big and so on. Take it from me, I'm yet to reach C2! You can approach this day by day, and I recommend this, but do it with particular strategic goals that you have advancing efficiently as you go.


So wise...

Yes, focus, focus, focus....

I strongly believe that targeting an exam is not a good idea. Exam will say no more than it was passed. Maybe good to add to a CV or getting into school. But for access to the culture.... well, there is an easier way: Do what you really want to do after covering the basic. Why not to targeting a skill level? For example, you began with the greatest course I know for speaking, FSI; if accompanied by italki practice it would give you strong conversation skills. -I am puzzle the reason you dropped out. I did the whole course, and it helped me a lot.

For reading: books, books, books..... let's say: 20,000+ pages

For Listening: audiobooks, movies, news, podcasts. Let's say: 2+ hour/day

For writing: I have no idea because I don't think I ever will need it. Time/energy are limited.

Of course, after finishing covering the basics which is easily done with many good basic courses.
By the way, by the basic I mean: basic grammar, 500+ verbs and tenses, in addition of 5000+ known words.

I love your enthusiasm. I would suggest to focus in a single language and after developing the desire skill and only then to explore further languages. A language is NOT a milestone to accomplished but a door to enter into a linguistic universe.

And yes... I forgot... be patient. It takes a while to get there... Enjoy the ride. Good luck.
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