Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Bunnychu
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Bunnychu » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:08 pm

Iversen wrote:OK, how would a Romanian cook then call a circular piece of ground porc fried on a pan? Well, probably something in French, but let's cut out the professionals (and save a lot of money). What about a good oldfashioned Romanian gospodină? I found something called "pârjoală" on the internet, but when I looked it up in the Romanian Wikipedia the article showed - hahahahaha - a picture of Danish "frikadeller" (singular form: frikadelle). The point is that "pârjoală" contains eggs, and the Danish 'frikadelle' does too. Actually my mother's 'frikadelle-fars' contains 400 grams of finely ground pork (or poultry) meat, one ground onion, a couple of spoonfuls of flour, one egg plus pepper and a pinch of salt (sometimes also other condiments), and each 'delle' is oval and around 4-5 cm long. Wikipedia claims that we have got the word through German from Italian "frittatella", and if that's true then the word isn't related to "fricassee", which is some kind of stew containing pieces of meat.

Cotlet_Schabowy cu oiure (wikipedia ro).jpg

By the way, in Danish we also use the word "frikadelle" about pompous histrionic actors, whereas a "bøf" is a male person who does the irons and get totally oversized muscles. But neither is meant for human consumption. And 'deller' (in the plural) refer to the fat deposits that occur around the waist of slightly overweight people.

So in essence I still don't know what I should have ordered if I had reached the city centre in my dream. The Romanians (and Moldovans) do eat fried ground pork, but then they apparently mix it with other ingredients and form it into cylindrical 'mici' (similar to the Slavic Ćevapi) or small meatballs with lots of condiment.

Karbonade (Arla).jpg


În funcție de regiune, în loc de pârjoală (varianta regională), o să mai auzi chiftea (forma corectă), piftea (varianta regională), iar aproape de granita cu Ucraina am mai auzit și kotlety (influență rusească). Ce e interesant este că forma de chiftea provine din turcă, köfte, doar că köfte pare să fie de fapt 'mici' în bucătăria românească. Pârjoalele/chiftelele se fac cu ou, pe când micii fără.
chiftea sf [At: H IX, 365 / V: chef~, chiof~, chiuf~, cuf~ / Pl: ~de / E: tc köfte] 1 Preparat culinar făcut din carne tocată și prăjită în ulei.
pârjoală sf [At: NEGRUZZI, S. III, 78 / Pl: ~le / E: pvb pârjoli] 1 Chiftea mare, de formă ovală, fragedă și pufoasă, dată prin pesmet și prăjită în grăsime încinsă.
mici (Substantivat, m.) Fel de mâncare din carne (de vacă) tocată, de forma unor cârnăciori, condimentați și fripți direct pe grătar; mititel. ♦
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:59 pm

RO: Mulțumesc a Bunnychu pentru răspuns, care a fost foarte informativ.

Am observat referirea la utilizarea cuvântului "cotlet" în zonele de frontieră cu Ucraina, deci am căutat cuvântul "котлета" în dicționarul meu ucrainean (lui 'Клуб сімейноґо дозвілля'), și acolo am găsit această explicație în limba engleză: "rissole, cutlet, (відбивна) chop". Mă uimește să văd "rissoles" aici, deoarece sunt niște lucruri mici de aluat cu umpluturi, dar citatul de mai jos din Wikipedia în limba engleză sugerează că chiar și "cotletul" poate fi un lucru atât. Cu toate acestea, sensul principal indic un fel de carne nu tocată și nu cu umplutură - și acesta este, de asemenea, și sensul de atât 'відбивна' cât 'chop'. Așadar, să fie surprinzător dacă românii vecini din Ucraina au ales să folosească cuvântul despre un fel de mâncare pe bază de carne tocată. Dar cu cât citesc mai mult despre terminologia culinară, cu atât eu devin mai confuz.

EN: English Wikipedia on 'cutlet':

Cutlet (derived from French côtelette, côte, "rib"[1]) refers to:
• a thin slice of meat from the leg or ribs of veal, pork, chicken, or mutton
• a dish made of such slice, often breaded (also known in various languages as a cotoletta, Kotelett, kotlet or kotleta)
• a croquette or cutlet-shaped patty made of ground meat
• a kind of fish cut where the fish is sliced perpendicular to the spine, rather than parallel (as with fillets); often synonymous with steak
• a prawn or shrimp with its head and outer shell removed, leaving only the flesh and tail
• a mash of vegetables (usually potatoes) fried with bread

.. as if that didn't add to the confusion!

FR: En ce qui concerne le mot 'carbonade', ici une carte postale française qui explique comment on peut faire quelque chose nommée "carbonade flamande". J'ai acheté la carte à Lille, qui est assez proche de Flandres. Ce qui est drôle, c'est qu'on opère là avec des tranches de viande entières. Chez nous au Danemark cela ne fonctionnerait pas du tout- ici la seule seule chose qui est sûr c'est que les 'carbonades' se font à la base de chair viande hachée, typiquement de porc (quoique certains végétariens utilisent le mot aussi pour leur copies végétales). Et normalement on ne serve pas ses carbonades dans une soupe ici...

.. comme si cela ne ferait accroître la confusion!

P7318b04_Carbonade Flamande (Lille, France).jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Bunnychu » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:11 pm

Wikipedia definitely doesn't help in solving this. The more I read, the more confused I am. :D
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:16 pm

Since the last message above I have spent a lot of time on music, but more about that later. Until I got 'distracted' I did my usual text studies and wordlists, but I also read some internet stuff about paleontology - and sorry dear Anglophones, we'll soon have to switch languages. At first I dropped the word "Elasmotherium" into Google and found (as expected) a lot about this majestic critter in English. But I already know English so instead I chose to study a text at the Spanish site prehistorico.fandom.com ...

SP: .. y descubrí que en la misma página también había también artículos sobre otros rinocerontes extintos, como Sinotherium (antecedente de Elasmotherium), Aceratherium (sin cuerno nasal, come indica ya su nombre), Teleoceras (otro animal acornada que vivía como el hippopotamo hoy), Dihoplus kirchbergensis (el rinoceronte de senõr Merck) y Stephanorhinus etruscus, peró tambien sobre el animal mas conocido - peró no mas impresionante - el rinoceronte denominada lanudo (Coelodonta antiquitatis) , que vivió al mismo tiempo como el mamut y compartió su destino. De estos grandes animales peludos de la edad de hielo solo sobrevivió el buey almizclero, que es una especie de oveja de gran tamaño.

SLK: Ale kde presne je Elasmotherium, niekto sa môže pýtať? Dôvod je ten, že som jeho model videl na tej špeciálnej výstave v Národnom múzeu v Bratislave v roku 2017, a v roku 2019 som videl zvieratá z tejto výstavy opäť v múzeu v českom Olomouci. A myslím si, že to je super!

CAT: Després, se m’acut la idea de buscar el canal de televisió català TV3 i, tot i que el meu antic ordinador (amb Windows 7) sovint ha de renunciar a mostrar formularis i contingut multimèdia modern, va resultar que podia veure la televisió de TV3 en línia - i naturalment vaig fer-ho immediatament. El meu català oral sembla que encara funciona: podia entendre el que es deia a la pantalla (encara que no sigui molt interessant).

EN: But then something happened that diverted my attention for a couple of days. Some time ago I got a call from a German lady who spoke excellent Danish. She told me about a friend of hers who played chamber music with two other ladies. However they played clarinet, viola and cello, and there is not much original music written for that combination, so they had through endless searches found my 'Little trio op. 37' on IMSLP and played it, and it seems that they had liked it.

GER: Ich hatte bereits während meiner Gespräch mit der ersten Dame gesagt, daß ich auch auf Deutsch kommunizieren könnte, und diese Woche erhielte ich dann eine sehr positive E-Mail von der Bratschistin der Gruppe. In meiner Antwort dazu habe ich geschrieben, daß ich unter Umständen vielleicht etwas mehr für ihre ungewöhnliche Instrumentenkombination schreiben könnte, aber daß dies vermutlich viel Zeit dauern würde, weil ich als Komponist ja schon lange nicht mehr in Form bin (wie die Spörtler sagen). Aber ich habe mich danach gefragt, ob ich wirklich nichts mehr komponieren könnte, und jetzt habe ich dann - vielleicht am meisten um mich selbst davon zu überzeugen - in drei Tagen ein Trio mit einer Dauer von ca. zehn Minuten für Klarinette in B, Bratsch und Cello gechrieben. Natürlich muß es auch auf IMSLP hochgeladen werden (vorausgesetzt, daß ich mich an die Methode und mein Passwort dort erinnern kann), aber sofort dies geschehen ist, kann ich hoffentlich einige Kammermusikerinnen in Rostock freuen.

F5612a03_elasmotherium.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby mick33 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:08 pm

Iversen wrote:and sorry dear Anglophones, we'll soon have to switch languages.
AF: Jy moenie om verkoning vra nie wanneer jy in ander tale sal skryf! DIt is so lekker dat ek Roemeens, Slowaaks, Duits of Katalaan om probeer te lees. Ek sal inderdaad meer oor paleogrondlaag in Spaans lees.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:30 pm

AF: Dankie aan mick33 vir die morele ondersteuning om voort te gaan te skryf in tale wat baie lesers nie kan lees nie.

EN: Since yesterday I have added one short 'Epilog' to my Trio for people in Rostock, and now it feels complete. So I don't think I'll be tempted to write more music in the near future. Gott sei Dank..

GER: Ich hatte übrigens ein Sprachproblem mit dieser Komposition. Das Wort "Trio" ist auf Deutsch neutrum, aber "Rostockes Trio" klang völlig falsch. So von jetzt ab wird es also 'Rostocker Trio' heißen, und ich habe überprüft, daß diese Kombination tatsächlich verwendet wird - obwohl zum Glück meistens über Fußballspieler und dergleichen, und anscheinend gibt es keine professionelle Ensemble mit dem Namen. Dies wäre sonst ein "Showstopper" für mich (gibt es übrigens ein deutsches Wort für 'showstopper' ?). Ob die Damen darunten es dann auch spielen, wenn ich es irgendwann auf IMSLP kolportiert habe, ist nicht meiner Sache.

Übrigens höre ich gerade eine Fernsehsendung über Anton Bruckner vom schwedischen Fernsehen, aber sehr passend wird es hier Deutsch mit österreichischem Ton gesprochen, nicht Schwedisch. Ich höre gern Schwedisch an, aber dann eher in Sendungen über schwedische Komponisten.

AF: Toe ek die boodskap van Mick33 lees, het ek dadelik aan die Karoo in Suid-Afrika gedink, wat die wêreld se beste vondplaas vir Perm-diere is. Dit was toe 'n natuurlike verwagting om materiaal oor oue diere op Afrikaans te vind, maar ondanks baie soeke het ek niks gevind wat ooreenstem met die pas genoemde Spaanse webwerf nie (behalwe Wikipedia, natuurlik).

DU: Maar tijdens de zoektocht vond ik toevallig een enorme verzameling korte wetenschappelijke artikelen op de Nederlandse website http://www.grelane.com. Ik had er een aantal geschreven voor verdere studie (uiteraard zonder vertaling), boven een artikel over een grappige kleine zoogdierhagedis genaamd Lystrosaurus, die op wonderbaarlijke wijze de grote uitsterving overleefde die het Perm-tijdperk beëindigde.

Ik vond ook een lijst met dino's in alfabetische volgorde, en hier las ik onder andere het artikel over Apatosaurus (uit de Jura-periode), waarin de vorige onwetendheid werd genoemd, waarin geleerden geloofden dat dit enorme dier ondergedompeld in water leefde om zijn kolossale gewicht te kunnen dragen... maar nu zijn we allemaal wijzer geworden - het beest leefde op het droge land. Het lukte me echter om de verouderde kijk te illustreren op een schilderij dat ik ergens in de jaren 70 voor de eetkamer van mijn moeder heb geschilderd - zie hieronder.

x08a.jpg

DK: Museerne i Danmark er for tiden tvangslukkede, og jeg nåede ikke at se den nyeste særudstilling på Moesgaard om neanderthalerne. Men på seniortv så jeg to udsendelser med tilknytning til denne udstilling, så nu har jeg en forudanelse om hvad den rummer. Videoerne ligger på vimeo - Youtube ville sikkert censurere dem bort, for de viser feminine sapienser og neanderthalere (og 'Lucy') med bare babser. Videoerne kan anbefales til vore danskstuderende Llorgere - der tales klart og tydeligt uden baggrundsmusik. Jeg gad i øvrigt vide, hvordan Youtube ville håndtere den manglende påklædning hos en Australopithecin som Lucy - men BH'en blev som bekendt først opfundet for 2000 år siden under romertiden.

F5034a04_Lucy.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:59 am

A decent circadian rhythm ought to be fixated around 24 hours. Mine isn't, so I had little by little pushed my goodnight time to 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning. Yesterday I decided to revert to more sensible hours and went to bed around midnight, and of course I couldn't fall asleep immediately so instead I got through about half of my good old Teach Yourself Old English from 1964 (7. impression from 78). And contrary to expectation I did actually have fun reading it. For instance I saw on page 53 that the verb "hattar" ('to be called' in Modern English) was the one and only surviving one-word passive verb in Anglosaxon. Ha ha, I know that word - it is "at hedde" in Danish - but I didn't know that it goes all the way back to a synthetic passive in Proto-Germanic or even before that. And "hattan" is not the only word that has become extinct in modern English, but still is alive and kicking in other Germanic languages.

On page 32-33 I noticed that in the analytic past tense forms (i.e. a form of "habban" or "bean" plus a past participle) the participle can be in either the Nominative or the Accusative, which typically has an added -e. I can't see the reason for that with "bean" (modern "to be"), but it makes sense with "habban "(modern "to have") - the construction with "to have" must have originated from a construction with some kind of an object predicative (or complement) : " I have seen the light" ---> I have + (light - 'seen'), but experts in Protoindoeuropean may know more about this topic. Anyway, it is an interesting quirk. And also that there is such a thing as an inflected infinitive, but not as in Portuguese. On page 55 and 56 there is a list of its typical uses (to express purpose, to 'complement the sens of a verb', whatever that is, and to 'define a adjective'), but I can't see a pattern here.

My main grievance with the book is that the texts in at least the first half of the book all are religious - either direct quotes from the bible or tales about bishops and saints. Yesterday I saw Stephen Fry in the quiz QI lament that no swear words are known from Anglosaxon, simply because the only people who could write were too religious to use such words. Damned - we lack a whole dimension of the language!

My second main grievance with the book is that it is impregnated with a historical view on morphology. If you look at the first two pages from the chapter about strong declensions you will see some masculine a-stems and some (equally) masculine -ja-stems. What I can't see is a difference between the two: the endings of stān (stone) are nought, nought, -es, e (N,A,G,D singular) and -as, -as, -a, -um (N,A,G,D plural), and the endings of "secg" (spear) are - guess what - nought, nought, -es, e (N,A,G,D singular) and -as, -as, -a, -um (N,A,G,D plural)! OK, then there is "ende" (end) which has -e and -e at the end in the nominative and accusative singular, but while that may have a historical background it isn't enough to warrant that you speak about ja-stems for a class that can't muster a single j in any of its forms.

When you construct morphological schemes then you are of course allowed to make them from a historical perspective, but then the explanations must follow at the same page - and it is still not the way a learner should think about the different forms in the first place. In any language which you study with the purpose of becoming an active speaker/writer the main thing must be to show how the system functions in its must succinct and logical form at the synchronic level. The excuse must be that no reader of this book is supposed ever to become an active user of Anglosaxon (and in my case that's a correct assumption), and then there is room for historical studies instead.

Apart from that, there are strong declensions and 'minor' (rather than 'weak') declensions. And among these last ones you find some 'monosyllabic' nouns whose declensions are based on vowel changes. One of the nouns quoted is by the way "hnutu" (nut), which to my eyes looks distinctly bisyllabic, but that's a minor issue. I'm more worried that the strong verbs are those which depend on vowel changes (p.52ff) whereas the weak ones use endings ... so why use the exact opposite system for nouns ?? And now we are at it, at page 199ff there are some tables for 'strong' adjectives. But here there is a general problem with the terminology: verbs and nouns can be either strong or weak, but not both at the same time. However adjectives are inflected strongly AND weakly, depending on the context - and not only in Old English, but in all Germanic languages I know of. It is sad that the words "strong" and "weak" have come to be used like this about adjectives, but I can't blame the author mr. Blakeley for that - he just continues in the footsteps of a long and dubious tradition.

All in all I'm happy that he at least put enough data on the table to make it possible to imagine other setups than those preferred by himself. Most modern textbooks aren't as systematic (and generous)...

Anglosaxon Nouns.jpg


GER: Und weil wir wir über die Beugung von Adjektiven sprechen: Auf Deutsch gibt es tatsächlich drei Reihen von Endungen, nicht nur zwei (wie in einige vereinfachten Darstellungen). Eine beugung wird nach bestimmten Artikeln benutzt, eine andere nach unbestimmten Artikeln und eine ohne Artikel dabei (alle drei mit verschiedenen Alternativen) verwendet. Mein grünes Blatt dazu ist unten zu sehen:

Deutsche Eigenschaftswörter.jpg
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:15 am

Yesterday I spent some time in the afternoon studying the handling of beef in Polish, using the textset I made a week or so ago while studying spam and pizzology.

POL: Chodzi o to, aby mięso dojrzewało tygodniami w zimnym miejscu, aby nadać mu więcej smaku, zanurzając je w marynacie, kroimy na grube plastry, a następnie po prostu pieczemy przez kilka minut z każdej strony, aby wewnętrzna część pozostała zakrwawiona i odrażająca . Nie tak traktuję dobre mięso. Nie lubię mojej wołowiny prawie surowej. Ale dzięki marynati (której też nie lubię) nauczyłem się wielu przydatnych nazw przypraw i warzyw. Najbardziej zaskakująca była chyba polska nazwa ziela angielskiego ('allspice' po angielsku, 'allehånde' po duńsku). Nazwy angielska i duńska nawiązują do tego, że smakuje jak mieszanka co najmniej siedmiu innych przypraw, w tym kardamonu, cynamonu, goździków, gałki muszkatołowej i imbiru. Innymi słowy, równie dobrze możesz użyć gotowej mieszanki przypraw.

W polskim artykule o mięsie mielonym, który studiowałem kilka dni temu, stwierdzono, że zazwyczaj sieka się mięso, gdy klient patrzy. Czy nadal to robisz w Polsce? Nie dzieje się tak nawet w nieliczni pozostałych sklepach mięsnych w Danii - ani trochę w supermarketach. Byłem oczywiście w polskich supermarketach, ale nie po to, żeby kupować mięso raczej nabiał, pieczywo i słodycze.

FR: Le soir, j'ai lu des articles en français sur Internet au son de la musique de Richard Strauss. Oui, je sais que cela ressemble à un choc culturel, mais j'écoute actuellement ma collection de musique par ordre alphabétique. J'ai lu, par example, quelques textes sur la page de http://www.caminteresse.fr, tel que celui qui répondait à la question "Depuis quand les hommes ont ils parlé" (ou quelque chose comme ça). Il parait que déjà Homo habilis avait certains des centres au cervaux qui pour nous rendent possible de parler, mais pas les adaptations à la gorge qui permettent l'articulation différenciée (qui en partie seraient parus ches Homo Erectus, mais toujours pas assez pour scander les vers de Mallarmé). Pourquoi avaient-ils donc déjà les centres cérébrales corréspondantes, ces habiles?

EN: By the way, did you know that bird brains with a certain weight are more efficient than mammalian brains with the same weight? They may not have a layered cortex, but the density of neurons in their brains is up to four times that of a mammalian brain. And therefore a mere crow can be just as smart as a chimp in spite of being much smaller. And then I think of the raptors (Dromaeosauridae) that lived during the later part of the Cretaceaous, with lengths of up to 6 m - as the Utahraptor that out of the blue popped up on myTV screen yesterday. Luckily for us the biggest birds today are all fairly stupid - otherwise we would have a problem.

By the way, I sometimes wonder when we'll see whole virtual museums on the internet instead of those that are closed now because of corona. I know that some museums have made lots of internet materials and sometimes even virtual walks to remind people of their existence, but I'm thinking more in terms of complete 3D worlds which you can visit with a suitable gadget on your head. And then you could experience a meeting with a realistic raptor or T Rex without being transformed into a half-raw steak on a Polish homepage. The kids in the future may not care a bit about extinction - they can visit fictive worlds with all the rhinos and tigers and mammoths and raptors and Anomalochares you might wish for on the next generation of the internet, and why then care about the real world?

FR: Au fait, j'ai terminé la soirée en lisant l'article de la Wikipedia français sur le syndrome d'Asperger (adapté de la version anglaise). Un monde virtuel où vous n'avez pas à interagir physiquement avec d'autres personnes, mais pouvez communiquer avec eux à distance via l'Internet semble être comme crée pour les personnes atteintes du syndrome d'Asperger. Peut-être devrions-nous envisager de faire un ajout au Sermon sur la montagne spécialement pour les Asperger - il se peut que les doux vont posséder la terre et les pauvres-en-esprit les cieux, mais les aspies vont certainement s'emparer du monde virtuel.

M1624b04_telling a Tyrannosaurus to behave (Billund).jpg
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Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:47 pm

Not much to report this time .. I have been on a family visit, and as usual that means less to no studying. I did bring along a Polish grammar for goodnight reading, but for some reason didn't need it to fall asleep. In the train back home I did read in an issue of the outdoor travel magazine Weg, so now I know some byways of Lesotho and the South African region that borders the Western Drakensberg, where I actually have been twice, but due to the pandemy it doesn't seem like I'll get back there again soon. I also read about a lady who have more or less been living with the Himba in NW Namibia for more than twenty years, but I'm not going to follow into her footsteps.

AF: Die positiewe kant is dat ek steeds Afrikaans kan lees sonder 'n woordeboek te gebruik. Die negatiewe kant is dat ek nie die kans sal kry om dit taal vir eentalige reise te gebruik nie, sodat 't nie op my talenlis verskyn sal nie. Selfs as ek daar onder was, sou 'n eentalige reis in Afrikaans alles behalwe onmoontlik wees, want die meeste mense daar onder praat Engels met toeriste en hou hul Afrikaans geheim.

EN: After I got home I have mostly been doing wordlists based on the texts I have worked with the last week or so. Unfortunately it is hard to write anything entertaining about wordlists. However I did supplement the Russian wordlists with a new text about the Wrangel Island, which was one of the... no, let's take that in Russian:

RU: Я изучил русскую статью об острове Врангеля, названном в честь барона Врангеля, который услышал, что казак по имени Андреев нашел остров далеко на севере - и поэтому поспешил организовать туда экспедицию. Но, конечно, палеоэскимосы и другие так как уже давно его посетили, правда, хотя без создания постоянных поселений. Однако не похоже, чтобы Врангель когда-либо ступал на остров сам - его экспедиция (через 60 лет после экспедиции Андреева) потерпела неудачу - так что это название весьма незаслуженно.

Пока что я прочитал эту статью, думал, что мамонты дольше всех выживали на Новой Земле (где они вымерли около 5000 г. до н.э.), но на самом деле крошечные мамонты выжили на острове Врангеля, возможно, до 2000 г. до н.э.

Wrangel.jpg

SW: Och nu när vi redan pratar om Ryssland och Sibirien: idag såg jag ett program på svensk TV om Djatlovspassets mysterium. I januari 1959 gick sju män och två kvinnor på vandring i en öde område i norra Uralbergen, där de dog under mystiska omständigheter. Det verkar som om de flydde bort från deres tält ut i skogen utan sina polarkläder, och en räddningsexpedition hittade dem etterhånd i snöen der, delvis med allvarliga huvudskador. Och på deras kvarvarande foton ses bland annat en lurande storfot och (nära slutet) en oidentifiserat lysande skiva på himlan, och det fanns dessutom spår av radioaktivitet på några av deltagarna.

Det har funnits otaliga teorier på internet om saken, och det har till och med sendats film med konspirationsteorier på några av mina amerikanska TV-kanaler (kanaler, som i förvägen ser det som sitt jobb att skrämma tittarna med vilda historier om utomjordingar och Bigfoot och onda andar). I den svenska sändningen berättade en pensionerad räddningsarbetare om ett liknande fall från Sverige, där alla minus en deltagare i en expedition satt eller låg och frös ihjäl utan att ta på sig de varma kläderna eller dricka de varma dryckerna som stod bredvid dem. Endast en person som vaklade i riktning mot en hydda överlevde - den enda som hade ätit lite före den kalla chocken. I den svenska historien finns det dock inga foton av pälsiga varelser och konstiga himmelljus, ock inte heller några radioaktiva spår.. så kanske var det ändå en ond yeti som dödade otte vandrare på order av onda, radioaktiva utomjordingar från UFOet som ses på en av expeditionens sista fotografier.

Kunst061.JPG
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Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:48 pm

GER: Ich habe ein halbes Dutzend deutschsprachige Fernsehkanäle, und ich schaue sie regelmäßig an - mit oder ohne Ton. Es gibt nämlich immer noch Untertitel im Videotext auf den deutschen Kanälen - hurra - obwohl die Deutschen es sonst vorziehen, zwei Stimmen in zwei Sprachen übereinander sprechen zu lassen. Bei Arte gibt es jedoch Untertitel in reinem Französisch auf Seite 888, und dann werde ich dieses Chaos los. Ich habe gerade ein Programm über Gartenvögel gesehen, und vorher gab es eines über kluge Krähenvogel. Unter anderem wurde ein Experiment gezeigt, bei dem zwei Raben jeder an ihren eigenen Fäden ziehen müßten, um einen Stock mit Essen näher zu ziehen. Wenn nur ein Rabe zieht, passiert nichts, also müssen die Vögel zusammenarbeiten - und die Raben sind klug genug, um es herauszufinden. Schimpansen können das auch, aber der stärkste Schimpanse stiehlt oft die Beute - und dann ist der andere wenigstens schlau genug, um in Zukunft nicht mehr mit einem solchen Banditen zusammen zu arbeiten. Die Raben sind offensichtlich klüger als Schimpansen - vielleicht weil (wie ich neulich schrieb) ihre Neuronen näher sitzen und pro Raumeinheit zahlreicher sind als bei den Affen. Und dann ist es, daß ich an unsere Politiker und Journalisten und Direktoren denke .. na ja, besser nicht ...

Ich habe auch ganz viel deutsches Material vom Internet gelesen. Sontag Abend habe ich z.B. im Fernsehen gesehen, daß die Fernzüge in Norddeutschland gestern wegen des Wetters abgesagt wurden, aber als ich die Informationen auf der Website des NDR überprüfte, stieß ich auf einen Link zu einem Artikel , der erwähnte, daß der Komponist, Geiger und Dirigent Louis Spohr (1784 - 1859) den Dirigentstab erfand. Das wußte ich nicht! Näheres Studium angesagt! Leider habe ich auch gelesen, daß man in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern zurzeit neben seiner eigenen Familie nur mit einem anderen Person gleichzeitig treffen kann - und somit können die drei Musiker, an die ich neulich mein neues Rostocker-Trio geschickt habe, es noch nicht zusammen spielen - nur vereinzelt üben.

DU: Vandaag heb ik het begin van een afrikaanse artikel over het Karoo-bekken in Zuid-Afrika studeerd, maar toen dacht ik dat het misschien relevanter zou zijn om wat tekst in het Nederlands te studeren. En gelukkig had ik iets op voorraad, namelijk een artikel over de overlevingskunstenaar Lystrosaurus, die het grote uitsterven tussen Perm en het Trias heeft doorstaan. Ik heb er een tekst erover studeerd op de website greelane.com/nl, die ook een aantal andere populaire artikelen over wetenschap bevatte - dus is er ook iets voor later.

Dit uitsterven was het ergste sinds het Precambrium: bijna 70% van alle landdieren stierf uit en 95% van de dieren in de zee. Het lijkt erop dat het allemaal begon met een kloof in het huidige Siberië, waaruit honderdduizenden jaren lang enorme hoeveelheden lava werden gespoten, en dit leidde tot een kettingreactie van externe verstoringen, zoals zure regen, zuurstofverlies in de zee en waarschijnlijk ook het vrijkomen van methaan uit afzettingen van methaanclathraat uit de oceanbodenen.

Hoe kon een schattig klein diertje dat eruitzag als iets tussen een schildpad en een wombat met hoektanden daar overleven? Het artikel suggereert onder meer dat het diertje niet bijzonder gespecialiseerd was (wat waarschijnlijk een goede zaak is in tijden van crisis), maar ook dat het grote longen had, wat sluw is in een tijd met een laag zuurstofgehalte in de atmosfeer. Bovendien dat het gedeeltelijk aquatisch was, wat in der daad twijfelachtig is. Maar er werd ook iets anders vermeldt, namelijk dat "Zoals therapsids gaan, bevond Lystrosaurus zich echter aan de veel minder zoogdierachtige kant van de schaal: het is onwaarschijnlijk dat dit reptiel een vacht of een warmbloedige stofwisseling bezat, waardoor het in schril contrast staat met bijna tijdgenoten zoals Cynognathus en Thrinaxodon." Of met andere woorden: het Lystrosaurus had waarschijnlijk niet zoveel voedsel nodig als zijn verre verwanten, die al met warmbloedigheid had geëxperimenteerd. Niemand weet echter zeker waarom dit specifieke dier het overleefde terwijl de wereld eromheen uit elkaar viel.

RU: Я хотел больше узнать о переходе от перми к триасу, но по ошибке попал в русскую статью в Википедии о событии вымирания при переходе от триаса к юрскому (менее ужасное вымирание, чем только что упомянутое, но не тоже приятно провести время). Оттуда я напечатал статьи о лабиринтодонтах и плакодонтах для дальнейшего изучения.

Lystrosaurus (Wikimedia).jpg
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