SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:41 am

tangleweeds wrote:I loved your comments on typing in different languages--isn't it funny how we develop these odd preferences/aversions? My downfall was the Russian alphabet. Hiragana, katakana, kanji? Cool! Nifty! Crazy Gaeilge spelling/pronunciation? OK, fine, looks familiar but everything behaves uniformly weirdly. New different letters in the Russian alphabet? Cool! But a handful of my familiar roman sounding as I feel others should instead? My brain broke and noped out on that one entirely, no matter how many clever little apps I played with


Learning Cyrillic has been a challenge for me, and remembering the keyboard is even worse. So I understand. I think if I could drop everything else and just focus on Russian it would be a lot easier, but I don't want to do that. So I just slowly plug away at that. In past 6WC challenges, I worked on learning Russian cursive which was very helpful in getting me to write by hand in Russian, although I admit my Russian handwriting is a sloppy mess of cursive and my own style of writing block letters that I suspect no native Russian speaker could read without getting a headache. As for typing in Russian it's one of those things that I feel if I push myself too hard, I'll just discourage myself. So I just do a little typing practice on Clozemaster when I review mastered sentences, just maybe 20 at a time, a couple times a week, and I'm slowly getting better.

But I actually had an entirely unrelated question. What exactly do you do (or skip doing) in a "speedrun"? (as for Colloquial Dutch)


Usually when I go through a textbook like a Colloquial text, I tend not to go through them very linearly or quickly, and I'll spend different amounts of time on different things and I like to write some, if not all, exercises out. I'm not doing that with the Dutch course, because a lot of the basic grammar is recognizable to me and I don't want to spend too much time it. So I'm making myself just go straight through the text. I'll read the grammar and dialogues, listening to the audio files, read through the exercises (but not write any of them out) then at the end of the chapter I go back over the vocabulary very quickly and I move on to the next chapter. The idea is I want to get through both volumes first and if there are weaknesses or things I need to go back over, I'll do it later.

I've done something similar to this before with the Assimil Breton course because I had already completed Buan hag aes--very painstakingly I would like to add, and I still have the notebooks where I wrote out all those exercises and sentences, which make me grimace in haunting memory when I look at them :lol: --and so with the Assimil textbook, I didn't want to get bogged down on grammar and vocabulary I already knew, so I just rushed through the first 20 or so chapters (aka the "first wave" per the Assimil method).
3 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:44 am

The other night I had a dream...in Italian. Ok, not really in Italian, but rather in my level of pretty broken Italian, but all the same, why am I dreaming in Italian? I don't recall watching anything recently with any Italian dialogue--the closest being an episode of Barbaren that had some dialogue in Latin--and the only Italian practice I get in lately is a little bit on Clozemaster. So I don't know, but it was weird.

Anyhow, for the past three days I have been having issues with my heart condition, which has not been fun. It has slowed me down a bit, especially later in the day when I just flat-out run out of energy. So I'm not up to pushing myself with either my Dutch 6WC or my Navajo review at the moment.

That the coronavirus can still affect heart tissue in people who are asymptomatic has not helped ease my mind, although since Nov 2, when I had to go in person to get my car registration renewed, my out-of-house ventures have been limited to 2 places one week for essential caregiver errands, and in both places, the chance of my getting infected are very low due to those places' very strict COVID measures where I can do what I need to do without being near another body. But when you live in a city with mobile morgues, auxiliary hospitals, incredibly callous and greedy state politicians overruling local health officials, and nurses making viral videos of the the nightmare conditions here, it's hard not to live day in, day out with a baseline of nebulous anxiety.

Speaking of anxiety, one of my pandemic coping strategies has been recording/downloading COVID-related information and notices in my TLs, more or less using my online time being swamped with COVID-related info by turning it into an educational experience. Dear cosmos, that's such a teacher-ly thing to do. :lol: Anyhow, here's one in Breton.

Image

And this perhaps less-useful one, in French, about which consonants are more likely to expel saliva globules into the air. Seriously, people, just wear a friggin' mask and you're covered.

Image

While not in one of my TLs, this one--possibly my favorite out of my little collection so far--nicely illustrates the point I was trying to make about L2 English needing to be familiar with English literature even if they don't devote time to actually reading the books themselves.

Image

I mean, really, L2 English speakers and learners, do you want to out of the loop when you find yourself around a bunch of insufferable Dune fans (like me)? ;) And while I won't say everyone should read Dune, I do highly recommend this dramatic audiobook production of it, available on Amazon/Audible. :mrgreen:


SC progress (I'll update the progress bars later):

Barbaren, 1 Episode - 41 minutes

Wolf teeth! Latin! Ari's origin story!

La ley del corazón, 2 episodios - 90 minutes

I do not love La ley del corazón as much as I do the ridiculous Mexican telenovela based on it, Por amar sin ley, but I have no way to watch the latter right now, and there has been no sign of a 3rd season, sadly. It seems our local station is airing Le ley del corazón because there hasn't been a 3rd season of Por amar sin ley, but at least it is good practice listening to Columbian speakers.

Rownd a Rownd, 6 pennod - 114 minutes
Un Bore Mercher, 2 pennod - 100 minutes
Merc'her beure, 2 rann - 100 minutes
Ene(z), 1 rann - 30 minutes

As I mentioned in Monty's log, Merch'her beure is the Breton dub of Un Bore Mercher, a Welsh drama on S4C, and is available on Brezhoweb, like how Ene(z) is a Breton dub of the Gaelic drama, Bannin, the latter of which I have no way of watching right now. So it's nice to have access to both the original and the dub. But it's very funny doing this with a Welsh series because I can see how original Breton series copy Welsh series, or maybe the other way around, I'm not sure. But it's like they use the same pool of directors and cinematographers or something.

Rownd a Rownd is a soap very, very much in the vein of Ros na Rún. I like it. Lots of dialogue, lots of vocabulary exposure. Right now I'm just getting familiar with all the characters and their plotlines.

Le Jeu de la dame (The Queen's Gambit), avec doublage en français, 2 épisodes - 124 minutes

My mom and I are watching The Queen's Gambit, in English, and on my own, I'm rewatching it with the French dub. The dub isn't the best but I can live with it. I'm a bit obsessed with the series' piano-heavy soundtrack. The composer, Carlos Rafael Rivera, seems to have drawn from, among various other sources, the works of Ludovico Einaudi, whom I love. Perhaps Rivera's score reminding me of his work is why I had a dream in Italian?

7 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

DaveAgain
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: Eng (n)
x 1482

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:00 am

Cèid Donn wrote:Le Jeu de la dame (The Queen's Gambit), avec doublage en français, 2 épisodes - 124 minutes

My mom and I are watching The Queen's Gambit, in English, and on my own, I'm rewatching it with the French dub. The dub isn't the best but I can live with it. I'm a bit obsessed with the series' piano-heavy soundtrack. The composer, Carlos Rafael Rivera, seems to have drawn from, among various other sources, the works of Ludovico Einaudi, whom I love. Perhaps Rivera's score reminding me of his work is why I had a dream in Italian?
Yesterday I watched a video about the costumes used that series. I shall have to look out for it when it comes to Free TV. :-)

Hope your health improves.
2 x

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:46 pm

Thank you, DaveAgain. I'm feeling a little better this morning. :)

Thanks also for the link to that video. I'll need to watch that again--between how fast she talks and how the video is edited so it's basically one long stream of words, there were things that I had to just let pass me by to keep up. :lol: But very cool. To get off the topic of languages for second, there's certainly a lot of talk about the costumes in this series--lots of motifs and metaphors. It seems people want to talk about Beth's "White Queen" outfit and "Green Pill" outfit the most, but I personally was extremely intrigued by her black and white gingham swimsuit in the scenes of her diving into and immersing herself in the pool at the Las Vegas hotel. So much imagery and symbolism going on there. Also I've had a life-long love of checkboard/plaid/graph paper designs, and there was a lot of that in this series. (And I love Amilie's--I think that's her name--shirt in that Golden Grounds video too. I want it! :mrgreen: )
3 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

User avatar
Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Dabbling/Beginner: Czech

Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Norwegian (bit more than beginner) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 1048

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Montmorency » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:00 pm

Cèid Donn wrote:
As I mentioned in Monty's log, Merch'her beure is the Breton dub of Un Bore Mercher, a Welsh drama on S4C, and is available on Brezhoweb, like how Ene(z) is a Breton dub of the Gaelic drama, Bannin, the latter of which I have no way of watching right now. So it's nice to have access to both the original and the dub. But it's very funny doing this with a Welsh series because I can see how original Breton series copy Welsh series, or maybe the other way around, I'm not sure. But it's like they use the same pool of directors and cinematographers or something.

Rownd a Rownd is a soap very, very much in the vein of Ros na Rún. I like it. Lots of dialogue, lots of vocabulary exposure. Right now I'm just getting familiar with all the characters and their plotlines.




Oh thanks for that! Not seen the post yet, but will look out for it. I'm so glad they've got that. It's a great series in my opinion. I still haven't started watching the 3rd series. Must get round to it. I hope they manage to keep the suspense of the 1st 2 series, and that there aren't too many cop outs. Some of the Scandi-noirs (which I also love) haven't always fulfilled the promise of the first series.

Glad you like "Rownd a Rownd" too! I really like it, and am glad they decided to make it one of the programmes available worldwide. I haven't checked lately, but the other long running soap, "Pobl y Cwm" wasn't worldwide last time I did check.

Some years ago, I, er, acquired a Breton course on behalf of someone else, and gave it a read & listen. TBH, I could not recognise anything from the audio, although I could see obvious similarities in the written material. It's closer to Cornish than Welsh, so I understand. I've also seen and listened to part of one Cornish course, which did basically sound like Welsh with a Cornish accent. :-) Comical really. Breton to me sounds very French; inevitable, I suppose. Not in detail, of course, just in overall feel.
3 x

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:37 am

I'm pretty excited about Rownd a Rownd because Ros na Rún has been amazing for improving my listening skills and broadening my vocabulary in Irish, so I'm hoping Rownd a Rownd can do the same for my Welsh. It really could use a boost. :D

I can understand what you mean about Breton. While there are definite similarity between Breton and Welsh, they're more like cousins while Irish and Scottish Gaelic are more like sisters. In terms of phonology, Breton has moved further away from the (theorized) phonology of Common Brittonic than Welsh has, but it's retained the same Brittonic stress. However, some Breton speakers who speak French dominantly may end up using a more French-like stress, or just a less pronounced Brittonic stress, so their Breton will sound even closer to French than Breton speakers who retain a more robust Brittonic stress. The other thing that many people think makes Breton sound more French-y is the R sound--depending on the speaker, the R may be closer to the Welsh trilled R, while other speakers' R may be closer to a French guttural R. There's even a variation in some Breton dialects that is somewhere in between those two.

I also suspect that before the 20th century hyperdominance of French, other regional languages along that part of Western Europe likely had some influence on Breton phonology, since the Bretons would have traded a lot with neighboring communities. That possibly included the Basques, the Catalans and even the Galicians, as well as speakers of older French dialects like Norman French and other Oïl languages. In other words, for many centuries the Bretons were surrounded by more linguistic diversity than the Welsh were during that same time, so there were a lot of influences that could have helped Breton move further away from what it sounded like before the Bretons left Great Britain. So, yeah, Breton is quite the curious one.

And I'd agree with you that spoken Cornish does sound more like Welsh, even though Cornish and Breton are more closely related. But I don't know enough about the revival of Cornish to know why that is.
2 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:35 am

Well, I wanted to spend the day reading Tout s'effondre for my French SC. I haven't looked at it in weeks and don't even remember how far along I was when I last left off. But I've misplaced my copy. I do this often, and it's a reminder of one of the few unassailable benefits of e-books. You see, in the physical realm, keeping my study space and materials neat and organized is a bit like Galveston Island's fight against beach erosion: meagerly attended given the fuller scope of the problem, chronically several steps behind the bold, timeless march of nature's will, and ultimately futile. Nonetheless, at times, I must stop and address the issue lest it completely overwhelm, and I will probably have to do that tomorrow.

While I won't regale you all with stories of my childhood traumas, I want to simply note that I grew up with much chaos and upheaval and this experience did not impart on me the habits that, as an adult, would allow me to easily keep my study and creative spaces tidy--something made worse at my present age by my various health problems. It's curious, however, that when it comes to, say, cooking and baking, I find it effortless to be tidy. But I did not pick up cooking and baking until I was in my late 20s and was, at that time, living alone and a city away from my family's intergenerational dysfunction. Alas, today, I'm the live-in caregiver of my surviving parent, so I have to constantly cope with those familiar patterns of behavior which one often unconsciously slides back into when they are around family they grew up with. Insert heavy sigh here. :roll:

Anyhow, back to languages: lacking my current French SC book and not in the mood to start another, I settled on finishing my re-read of El aprendiz. I know I said I'd reread all the library books I currently have, but I have been itching for a full-on Dune fan binge for several weeks, and I'm just going to take the Oscar Wilde approach and give into temptation. So my next Spanish SC book will be Dune. That the Spanish edition e-book is currently and conveniently on sale on Amazon for $2.99 may have to been the little puff of wind that pushed me over that Dune fangirl ledge. :mrgreen:

My other sci fi itches have been 1) to rewatch all of The Expanse before season 4 comes out next month, but alas, I do not have access to any dubs, so I will have to limit that to just maybe the third season so not to eat up too much time, and 2) rereading Iain Banks, in particular his Culture series, but the language I most wish to read them in is French, and these books, as far as I know, are still not translated in French, and unless Francophone sci fi audiences suddenly develop a taste for Bank's very Scottish wit, may never be, sadly. So I will sate myself as much as I can with Dune in Spanish--although I may need to watch the documentary Jodorowsky's Dune again, about an attempted film adaptation of Dune that was to star, among others, Mick Jagger and Salvador Dalí.




I did look for a copy of Dune in French, but all copies I could find were a bit too dear for my pandemic budget. That would be hard to justify when I have plenty of free French material online that I can read, and at my level of French, probably ought to read.

But I'm going to stay annoyed at the cost of French books that I want to read for a bit here, because I had this same problem with my early desire to read The Witcher series in French. I was hoping that series would be popular enough that I could snag some super cheap used copies, but sadly, not the case. Like with the French edition of the Dune series, I would either pay more than I wished for a copy state-side or pay even more in shipping for a copy from overseas. :| So in short, I will put such fancies on a shelf for now and use Project Gutenberg until I have some more funds.

I already have a book on Gutenberg picked out: Histoire d'une âme by Thérèse de Lisieux. A departure from my usual SC fare, but in the past I have read quite a number of Christian mystics' writings, although many, many years ago, all in English and as part of my grad studies. So this should be interesting. I'm not a Christian--I just have a very complicated history with Catholicism, being of French, Irish and Scottish descent and having gone to a Catholic uni and doing phil and theo for my masters. In fact, I've even gone to see Thérèse de Lisieux's relics when they were touring the US. Yep, you read that right. Touring. It was quite a unique experience. I'll leave it at that. 8-)

SC progress (will update progress bars later):

El aprendiz - 184 paginas
6 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

DaveAgain
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: Eng (n)
x 1482

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:05 am

Cèid Donn wrote:I already have a book on Gutenberg picked out: Histoire d'une âme by Thérèse de Lisieux. A departure from my usual SC fare, but in the past I have read quite a number of Christian mystics' writings, although many, many years ago, all in English and as part of my grad studies. So this should be interesting. I'm not a Christian--I just have a very complicated history with Catholicism, being of French, Irish and Scottish descent and having gone to a Catholic uni and doing phil and theo for my masters. In fact, I've even gone to see Thérèse de Lisieux's relics when they were touring the US. Yep, you read that right. Touring. It was quite a unique experience. I'll leave it at that. 8-)
I'm reading this at the moment, the Gutenberg copy is a bit of a hodge-podge. You have an autobiography, some personal anecdotes, letters, poems and song lyrics produced by Saint Thérèse, then towards the end there are a number of letters attributing miracles to the intercession of the dead saint. The letters part (75% of the eBook) is where I'm up to so far.

EDIT
For some weird reason I like watching the Dune trailer in my target languages: French, German. :-)
1 x

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm

So I went and looked that the whole thing, and at the very end of the Gutenberg copy, they have this:

End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of Soeur Thérèse de l'Enfant-Jésus et de
la Sainte Face, by Sainte Thérèse de Lisieux


That's a different book from Histoire d'une âme, and per the Gutenberg copy, it was published in 1911. I suspect it is an early 20th century devotional that included the manuscripts of Histoire d'une âme, plus additions that readers who observed a devotion to her would be interested in. The "de la Sainte Face" part is a tip-off--that's not often noted in things outside of lay devotionals, as it's a reference to Thérèse's own devotion to the Holy Face and often of not much interest to people reading her for theological and doctrinal reasons. Histoire d'une âme is just 3 short manuscripts by Thérèse, although often published in a format where they are divided up into chapters to make a more fluid, larger text, and that's really all I want to read. In English, the 3 manuscripts together are only about 200 pages, if that much.

There's a version of the manuscripts on archive.org but the way that version is annotated and formatted, I would prefer not to use it. So I'll probably just stick to the Gutenberg copy and just read the Histoire d'une âme part. While I love reading French poetry, Thérèse's poetry doesn't appeal to me, I'm afraid.

EDIT:

For some weird reason I like watching the Dune trailer in my target languages:


I had assumed those were trailers for the upcoming version with Timothée Chalamet, and didn't watch them until after I posted. But I'm delighted that they are of the Lynch version. Thanks for the links! 8-)

Apropos of nothing, I'm a tad jealous of Chalamet because he has dual US and French citizenship--I missed out of my chance to get either dual Canadian or Irish citizenship, thanks to my late father's unwillingness to do his part of the process [according to what was necessary at the time those windows were open for me], and it's a wound I dare say will never heal--it just manifests from time to time as a mild irrational jealousy of people who do have dual citizenship).

EDIT AGAIN:

I just found that the original 3 manuscripts are online at the Le Carmel en France website, although they are not downloadable as far as I can tell, only readable online.
2 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30

User avatar
Cèid Donn
Green Belt
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:48 pm
Languages: en-us (n)
x 1372

Re: SC bookkeeping and other language learning whimsy

Postby Cèid Donn » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:33 am

My mom and I watched a movie on Hulu yesterday called The Limehouse Golem, which wasn't very good, but in one scene I was taken off guard when a child actor got a spoken line in Irish. I understood enough to recognize it as Irish, and picked out "mo mhátair" and "mo bhreithlá" but I didn't understand all of what she said without turning on the subtitles (which, strangely enough, had the Irish text, and not just [speaks in Gaelic] as it did for some the extras in the scene that were talking in the background). It was a line about the girl saying her mother has already arranged to sell her off, I think from the context, to a factory as a child laborer, although prostitution may have also been the intention--that's not the sort of thing I have really come across in my Irish studies so I guess I shouldn't be too sad for not understanding it. :lol:

I finished chapter 12 in Colloquial Dutch this evening and got started on chapter 13, and I was all excited as I thought I was near the end of this volume, assuming there were only 14 chapters. So I checked and saw there's actually 17. :lol: Oh well. A little bit longer. This is one thing I really dislike about using pdfs--once you're in the middle of the text, you kind of lose all sense of how far along you are, and the pdf page count is usually useless as a quick reference as it counts everything, like title pages, table of contents and appendices.

Colloquial Dutch really moves things along. Chapter 12 goes over relative clauses (continued over from chapter 11) and the pluperfect. By the end of this volume, I probably could start writing short paragraphs in my journal.

I've been doing a lot of studying the past 3 days because starting tonight I start on the Thanksgiving baking. Even though it's just going to be myself and the two other people who have been living here since the start of the pandemic (and 3 pets), I only have 1 oven and a very finite amount of energy, so I have space things out. I suspect I'm going to be listening to a lot podcasts and audiobooks over the next couple of days, and watching a lot of videos/TV when I'm not in the kitchen.

SC progress:

Ros na Rún, 3 eipeasóidí - 72 minutes
Rownd a Rownd, 2 pennod - 38 minutes

I'm several episodesbehind in the current season of Ros na Rún and it's annoying because the Ros na Rún TG4 Twitter account likes to posts questions after every new episode airs to engage fans, and I'm like, "Na fhaca mé an eipeasóid sin fos!"

I'm at the point with Rownd a Rownd that I think I know what's going on. I'm trying to pay closer attention to the dialogue and eventually I'll start recording things in my journal the way I do with Irish. It'll be more time consuming as I'm not as good at Welsh as I am with Irish--I'm not the point with Welsh where I can dictate most of what I hear even if I don't understand every word yet, like I can with Irish, usually. Unless it's a child character in a period drama talking about being sold off. :P
2 x
Dutch Memrise 1-7 Crunch : 14 / 164
Colloquial Dutch 1 & 2 Speedrun : 11 / 29

November Navajo: 30 hours of review & practice : 17 / 30


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: overscore, sillygoose1 and 1 guest