Learning Japanese From Zero

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devilyoudont
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby devilyoudont » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:03 pm

So, we always recommend Lingodeer over Duolingo in the Japanese learner community, and I thought maybe it would be helpful to clarify why...

1) Lingodeer uses recordings of native speakers rather than Text to Speech... In practice this means that Lingodeer never makes an error about how a kanji should be read

2) Grammar explanations are available in app, rather than limited to desktop only

3) An intermediate learner such as myself will not find errors in Lingodeer

This may seem like a very low bar to clear, but none of the above can be said for the Japanese course on duolingo :cry:
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:20 am

I do really appreciate the native audio. I just wish it had an SRS and the UI was more polished like Duolingo is (or used to be).
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kraemder
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby kraemder » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:30 am

golyplot wrote:
Edit: I pasted my answer (にゆう) and the "correct" answer (にゅう) into the dev console and mapped it to unicode code points to try to debug their stupid question. It turns out my answer was using the regular YU while the correct answer is expecting small YU. My mistake had been to just type in each hiragana one by one (NIYUU) when you're apparently supposed to type NYUU instead to get the small YU. It would have been nice if they explained that anywhere. Oh well, at least I figured it out now.

Edit 2: It turns out that Wanikani does in fact have a page on this very topic. I wish I had seen that first instead of having to figure it out the hard way.


This sounds like how I learn everything. My favorite resource learning Japanese was the Core 2k/6k/10k deck. Here's a link to the 2k one: (if you like pictures look for a different version with pictures)

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2141233552
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:12 am

kraemder wrote:My favorite resource learning Japanese was the Core 2k/6k/10k deck. Here's a link to the 2k one: (if you like pictures look for a different version with pictures)


Thanks for the suggestion! I'm already doing Wanikani, which seems to serve a similar purpose, but I might try Anki as well if I get bored sometime.


Update: I did two lessons on Lingodeer today and watched ep4 of Let's Learn Japanese Basic I. I recognized the book kanji (本) in the Lingodeer lesson, which I thought was really cool, since I learned it from Wanikani earlier today. It's neat to see stuff crossover like that.

I also watched ep2 of SAO tonight (with subs). I barely even bothered trying to listen to the Japanese this time. It's mostly for entertainment, rather than learning. But I do hope that I'll start picking up more of it once I'm farther along.
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:37 pm

I had a revelation while doing the Language lesson on Lingodeer this morning. Japan (日本) is composed of the kanji Sun and Book, which have the readings nichi and hon respectively, while 日本 is pronounced nihon, which is (sort of) a combination of the readings I've learned. It's cool to see connections like that.

As far as Wanikani goes, level 2 is proving easier than I expected. I got around 85-90% correct yesterday, and 97% correct on the review this morning. So I'm once again mostly left bored, waiting for the next set of exercises to unlock. Obviously, I'd like to be getting 100% on everything, but it's still much better than I expected. I'm still frustrated by how often I remember the mnemonic but still get the reading wrong though. I had to make up my own mnemonic for 人工 because Wanikani doesn't even have one.
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kraemder
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby kraemder » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:23 am

Remembering the meaning or English translation of a kanji is tons easier than remembering it's Japanese reading. Which is why reading Kanji is tons easier for Japanese people. If we used kanji to write English on the other hand they'd be screwed. Anyway. I really struggled with kanji and would have loved to reverse the situation and make them read English using a crazy writing system like theirs.

日本 sun book for sure but 本 also has the reading もと hand means origin or source. Land of the rising sun. Makes sense right?
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:07 am

ロータス wrote:I have never used Wanikani but from what you wrote, it seems that they only let you do a set amount of kanji a day? You cant increase it? What amount is it set to? Not allowing you to increase the amount and study how you want seems like a way to get the most money out of you long term.


It starts out really slow, but from what I've read, it quickly gets to the point where you're begging it to stop. Most of the discussion I've read from people on higher levels is about stuff like avoiding burnout and strategies for managing the review queue. A common piece of advice I've seen is to avoid doing new lessons as long as you have 100+ items in the "apprentice" stage.

Wanikani consists of 60 levels. Most levels can be completed in a theoretical minimum of 6 days and 20 hours, while some levels can be completed in half that. So the theoretical minimum is around a year, but few people have come close to that. One person managed to complete it in only 368 days, which is notable because of just how rare and insane that is. 1.5-2 years seems more realistic, and even that is better than most people do.

I doubt it's particularly profit motivated either, given that a) the free levels are incredibly slow, leading to a bad first impression, and b) they focus most of their marketing on buying "lifetime memberships" anyway. It seems like it's just a genuine belief that their fixed SRS timings are the most effective way to learn.
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:18 am

Lingodeer rant time:

Yesterday morning, I stopped after the "languages" lesson. It turns out that it is impossible to proceed further in Lingodeer without taking a test. And that test has almost nothing to do with any of the previous lessons. The questions in the lessons all involve clicking on pictures or words to fill in a blank. There's only a single question at the end of each lesson that asks you to spell out a sentence. Meanwhile the test consists entirely of that type of question, despite Lingodeer giving you virtually no practice for it. Unless you obsessively pay attention to the furigana during the lessons, the test is basically impossible. I think it's ridiculous that you can get every question in the lessons right on the first try and still fail miserably on the progress test. The lessons should at least try to prepare you for the test!
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:39 pm

ロータス wrote:It's been a while since I have finished the Korean Lingodeer but I'm 100% sure if I did the lessons before, I didnt have to do the 'Test Out' block. 'Test Out' block is only for if you want to skip the lessons that come before it which you have already completed. Trying clicking on lesson 'Daily Supplies ' . It should be unlocked now if you did all the lessons in the 'Language' block... You can tell if it is unlocked if it has a 0/# under the name of the lesson.


For me, "Daily Supplies" is greyed out, and clicking on it does nothing.
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golyplot
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Re: Japanese listening from nothing: 2020 Log

Postby golyplot » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:23 am

ロータス wrote:Can you post a screenshot? This is weird



Here's a screenshot attached.
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