Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

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Bex
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:22 am

Super Challenge July update:

Well this month didn't exactly go to plan, I was ridiculously busy with guests, kids and summer holidays/life in general. So I didn't really manage any study time to speak of.

Anyhoo... I managed to read 6 books and watch 1.8 films for the Super Challenge.

I've stopped trying to read novels/fiction and I've gone back to reading podcast transcripts because I really have a hard time finding books I'd read in any language but I seem to be able to happily consume podcast transcripts.

At the moment I'm reading transcripts from www.spanishpodcast.net

My total is now 71.4 books and 79.6 films.

If I keep reading at the rate I am currently, then I should just manage to complete the SC by the end of the year :D
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Bex
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:18 pm

And August was a write-off...no studying done at all :oops:

August Super Challenge update: books read 1.7 and films 2 :roll:

I think I finally crashed and burned with my reading. I couldn't face forcing myself to read stuff just for the sake of completing the Super Challenge.

So I stopped...

What I did find interesting though is that when I was visiting Andalusia for 11 days this month, I could understand pretty much what was being said to me but I was incapable of replying in anything but really simple sentences.

I think all the SC input (73 books & 81 films ) has really improved my vocabulary, comprehension and listening ability to a pretty good conversational level.

The frustration of not being able to reply was unbelievable.

I'm not sure how I will proceed from here.
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Mista » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:18 pm

Bex wrote:The frustration of not being able to reply was unbelievable.

I'm not sure how I will proceed from here.

If I were you in that situation, I would find someone to practice speaking with. Seems like the logical conclusion to what you are saying?
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:57 am

Sorry this is likely to be a long waffle of my disorganised thoughts again...but I find it useful to write thoughts down sometimes. Any feedback on any of this, as always, is gratefully received...

I feel like I am adding Spanish vocab all the time with all the input from the Super Challenge, FSI, textbooks etc. but with no real direction. My routine is really input heavy with no output. I need to find a way to activate some of the stuff I have in my head by myself at home, as I obviously have a lot Spanish in there but I just can't spit it out. I also need to concentrate on the common spoken vocabulary I am missing.

I should be able to get back to FSI and reading next week as my kids finally go back to school. at the moment I am tempted to just get the SC & FSI volume 2 completed and then change my routine completely to focus mainly on speaking and spoken vocabulary.

At the moment I'm thinking I might....

1. Finish the Super Challenge using DaveAgains' method:
DaveAgain wrote:I read each chapter in English, and then read and listened in German.
but obviously in Spanish. I'll try and finish Harry Potter 4.

2. Finish FSI volume 2 - I think this would take around 6-7 weeks.

Once that's done, maybe in the new year... I'm thinking I might set-up a new routine, something along the lines of...

1. Set a listening/watching challenge for myself. Maybe 100 hours Peppa pig to start with? Then moving onto slightly harder such as the Simpsons, with an aim to eventually be able to watch chat shows. I will be listening/watching as much as I can because if the SC had taught me anything Input is still key and listening/watching is definitely my favourite type of input. I have a long term goal in mind of 1000 hours.

2. Start Glossika 2 GSR (old school) , I know it's not really speaking but I find it really does help with my pronounciation and automaticity. And it also only takes 25 minutes every day so I can easily fit it in.

3. Start writing using the top 4000 spoken words, to create sentences I would actually use myself. I'm not sure if I would use SRS to revise sentences or just read them aloud from my notebook as revision? Maybe cloze sentences on Anki would be useful, I could add speech and say each sentence outloud?

I think using the top 4000 words from subtitles, would give me some focus to start with when creating/writing my own sentences. I hope it would be useful to start being able to say what I want to say using common vocabulary from speech, even if these sentences are quite basic to start with.

I will also start to steal useful sentences from podcasts, YouTube, Netflix etc and add these to my notebook of spoken/useful sentences as well.

4. Arrange either a language exchange partner or italki lessons once or twice a week. Note things I'd tried to say but couldn't and add to my sentences list to work with as above.

At the moment this is my vague plan for the new year/end of SC. But I'm not sure it's the right way to go, I'm especially unsure what to do with any sentences I collect in my notebook.

I'm trying to emphasise conversational vocabulary and add more speaking practice, I definitely want to emphasise things I enjoy doing, whilst still getting lots of input. It seems to be a tricky balance, especially time wise.
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:30 am

Attempting to get back into a routine this week...

The first part of my plan was to go back to reading Harry potter using DaveAgains' method of reading each chapter first in English and reading again in Spanish with the audio.

But I didn't like the process at all; I didn't like first reading in English as it felt like time sink when I could be reading in Spanish or the second reading as I knew what was coming, so I lost all interest. I also didn't like having the audio on as it slowed down my reading to a strangely uncomfortable speed.

So I went back to using Readlang to read HP with no audio. I am trying to look up as little as possible so as not to interrupt my reading flow. Getting back into a routine has been tricky but I've tried to make reading my default activity at certain times of the day, such as when I'm eating breakfast or lunch, or waiting in my car.

Having certain times when I default to reading has been quite successful. Since Monday I have read 146 pages which is a vast improvement over the 83 pages I read in the whole of August!

The second part of my plan was to restart FSI where I left off and finish volume 2, however this wasn't very successful. I was planning to pair up my exercise (mainly rowing machine ATM) with FSI but it's too long at 45 minutes and FSI is too intense. So I replaced it with Glossika GSR level 2. I exercise for around 30 minutes, 4 mornings a week and Glossika fits into this really well at around 20-25 mins. It's pretty easy to listen to, doesn't matter if I get distracted momentarily and engaging enough to make the exercise pass more quickly; so this pairing is worked nicely.

Unfortunately this did mean I haven't restarted FSI this week. I think I'll have to put aside 45 mins each day for FSI and just get it done, as I think it's just too demanding an activity to pair with anything else.

I have found the success of these two pairings interesting, and I now find myself trying to think of ways I can incorporate Spanish into more of my daily activities...
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:47 am

September SC update...

7.1 books read & 3.7 films watched...all in the last 2 weeks of September.

Totals: 80.1 books & 85.3 films.

The pairing of reading with breakfast has been really successful... although my breakfasts seem to last over an hour most mornings now :lol:

Only 8 chapters of Harry Potter 4 to go. I've enjoyed this book the most out of the 4... I don't know if it's because I'm getting deeper into the plot/characters after 4 books or because my reading is getting better?

ETA: totals
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby Bex » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:33 am

Morgana wrote:Book 4 is where it turned around for me as well, though still by the end of it I decided I'd had enough of Harry for a while...

Glad to hear the reading is becoming more enjoyable :)

Thanks Morgana, it would be nice to look back and realise this was a turning point... fingers crossed.

I often wonder if there are points in reading comprehension where you suddenly turn a corner, like points where you realise it's getting a bit easier or enjoyable say 500 pages, then 1000 pages, then 3,500 pages etc. I don't have enough reading experience to answer that question yet, but maybe one day...who knows?

As for reading the Harry Potter 5, it definitely wouldn't be my first choice but it is exactly the correct length (within 1 page!!!!) for me to finish the Super Challenge and rather than waste time looking for alternatives with over 800 pages, I suspect I'll just get on and read it. I'll have to decide when I've finished book 5 and the SC, if reading the final two Harry Potter books in the series is a challenge I wish to face :?

ETA: spelling/grammar
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby coldrainwater » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:33 am

Bex wrote:I often wonder if there are points in reading comprehension where you suddenly turn a corner, like points where you realise it's getting a bit easier or enjoyable say 500 pages, then 1000 pages, then 3,500 pages etc.
This question always piqued my curiosity as well. What I noticed may not be applicable to your SC, but nevertheless we study the same language and likely work with overlapping resources. I selected books long enough so that I could see the process unfold before my eyes. The trend I noticed was that if I picked a Spanish novel of say 800-1000 pages, after the first 300-400 pages or thereabouts, things sort of gave way and the author's idiolect seemed to clarify. This happened to me with numerous authors including Santiago Posteguillo, Benito Pérez Galdós, and Clarín for instance and I noticed it at differing reading levels.

Thinking about the receptive turning points (they were twisty, windy curves and edges more-like), the pace felt like this scene from Conan but with more confusion and less muscle behind it. I tended toward intensive reading, mainly because it was far too slow to be called anything other. What built momentum for me was when I finally mustered forces enough to go for a young adult novel that had good clear audio and I tackled it as a read/listen rather than just a read. A work by Rothfuss was my choice at the moment. It sort of tricked me into slightly more extensive reading. Then I was able to strain my ears slowly through a few more authors like Ildefonso Falcones (native and harder) and Ken Follett (much easier), but without the text, working hard to follow the storyline. In short, the momentum drove page volume for me and that happened when I let the narrator dictate the pace of the tale. That doubled my read speed and may have been a turning point for me similar to what you were thinking of. Keep up the great work and enjoy the ride!
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby AndyMeg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:59 pm

Bex wrote:I often wonder if there are points in reading comprehension where you suddenly turn a corner, like points where you realise it's getting a bit easier or enjoyable say 500 pages, then 1000 pages, then 3,500 pages etc. I don't have enough reading experience to answer that question yet, but maybe one day...who knows?

When I started reading japanese manga in english, the turning points I felt were more or less like this: 1) three to four weeks 2) three months 3) ten months 4) two years.
I went from barely being able to read one to three pages a day to read a 189-chapters-long manga in five days at the 10th month mark. At the two years mark I was reading manga across many genres, not only the ones I had started with.

I really like to start with comics/mangas because the images provide extra context that is harder to find in only-text formats.
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Re: Bex Spanish log 2019: a definitive guide on the slowest way to learn Spanish ever!

Postby iguanamon » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:36 pm

Bex wrote:I often wonder if there are points in reading comprehension where you suddenly turn a corner, like points where you realise it's getting a bit easier or enjoyable say 500 pages, then 1000 pages, then 3,500 pages etc. I don't have enough reading experience to answer that question yet, but maybe one day...who knows?

There are indeed turning points. It's about achieving "critical mass". Vocabulary repeats when reading a series of books by one author. This repetition begins to have a positive effect and reading does get easier as a result. The problem with beginning to read in L2 is that it is so frustrating at first because the learner has to build their vocabulary. Their are many ways to do this- build vocabulary first out of context with SRS; 10,000 sentences method; intensive reading; extensive reading and guessing; a combination of both intensive and extensive reading; parallel texts- a method where a reader (using faithful human generated translations) can glance to one side and confirm guesses or see meaning.

After going through a series of books by one author, then moving to a new author often means a new getting used to a new writing voice with new vocabulary. The thing is that after having gotten to the turning point already by reading that series, the wheel does not have to be re-invented. It's not as difficult. The base is there now and the turning point now comes within that new book by the new author. Of course, with people who flat out don't like to read, then it becomes more difficult but still doable as long as they find something, anything, they may like in order to keep the momentum going. Keeping the momentum going is critical. Reading is one of the best ways for a learner to build vocabulary and gain an inner voice of grammar that says "this doesn't seem right to me".
AndyMeg wrote:...I really like to start with comics/mangas because the images provide extra context that is harder to find in only-text formats.

Comics, for some reason, are somewhat overlooked nowadays on the forum. It was emk (also Chung) whom I credit with giving me permission to learn with comics. He used them quite a bit in his French-learning journey. I have read many comics/graphic novels in both Spanish and Portuguese- translations and originals. The speech is more colloquial and contemporary. The images are an extra aid for the learner to figure things out. Comics are almost like a cross between reading and television. They're also a fun way to learn.

Well done, Bex!
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