Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:09 am

MamaPata wrote:You’ve gotten to a great point with your French, you’ve made it part of your life, you’ve been able to translate for patients. That’s incredible.


And speaking of which...

Interesting situation last night at the hospital. A patient I was caring for of African origin turned out to have a poor grasp of English. When I found it the patient was from a west African nation in which French is spoken by many, I asked him/her if he/she spoke French. The reply was yes, and confirmation was made that French was preferential to English in my communications with him/her. Turns out the patient was originally from another, African nation in which French was also used as well. French was not the patient's primary language, but it was much preferred over English. So that was nice, to be able to use French again with another patient and translate again between the doctor and the patient.

The most difficult part was that the patient was very softly spoken, and I had to strain even when very close to him/her to make sense of what I was hearing to any extent. I quickly offered some comical relief stating I was rather deaf when requesting him/her raise the volume somewhat. If he/she was speaking English this would've been the same. Confusion arose a couple of times stemming from misunderstandings of how the medical system here works (the patient was a recent arrival from overseas) and only one situation in which I actually interpreted 'Je peux' as 'Je paie/paye'. Several attempts to ask him/her to repeat the phrase still left me confused, as this was right at the same point where misunderstandings over the medical system were thrown into the mix. Anyway, it was a bit of fun, but not at much as my last encounter due to the straining to hear, but it was also nice to be able to help via my linguistic knowledge.

There was an unknown word, which turns out I knew but the light-bulb didn't switch on immediately. Another word I used incorrectly but it didn't prevent comprehension nor did it prevent me learning (from the patient) which was the preferable term.

It raised the sentiment for more need for conversational practise. Not because I was rubbish, but just because I noticed the effect of reinforcement via real-life use of the language. It's one thing to study seventy hundred trillion grammar books and watch 20,000 films, but another thing to actually converse. Of course, as mentioned, I knew this, but it did serve as a good reminder.
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby rdearman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:56 pm

Language Exchanges...
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:21 pm

rdearman wrote:Language Exchanges...


Yes, you’ve crossed my mind several times, rdearman, while I was contemplating this topic. If you wouldn’t mind, which sites, apps, services do you recommend? (a link to a post of yours is fine if you’ve already detailed this).

I’ve used italki for tutors in the past, but although I will use them again, I don’t want to use them too frequently nor exclusively due to it being a little pricey for some of the better ones. I’m happy to help with English (i.e. exchanges).
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby rdearman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:35 pm

I have found a lot of partners on these websites, and they are normally serious learners:

https://www.conversationexchange.com/
https://www.language-exchanges.org/

At the gathering I attended a talk by one of the creators of the tandem app. Many people I spoke to gave it good reviews, although I didn't use it myself to organize language exchanges.

https://www.tandem.net/
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:39 pm

rdearman wrote:I have found a lot of partners on these websites, and they are normally serious learners:

https://www.conversationexchange.com/
https://www.language-exchanges.org/

At the gathering I attended a talk by one of the creators of the tandem app. Many people I spoke to gave it good reviews, although I didn't use it myself to organize language exchanges.

https://www.tandem.net/


Thanks rdearman,

I shall utilise this info dès que le Tour de France se terminera.

Why so many leaves? I mean, why? I mean it’s not as if chickens (aka hens, aka chooks, aka sharks) can see, is it now? How many eyes do you have when you’re awake?
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Elsa Maria » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:25 am

PM, I am sure that your patient was very appreciative of your French translation. Hospitals can be scary when you are the patient, and it surely helps the patient to be able to use a stronger language.
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:46 am

Future language learning ponderings.

I am hoping to sit the C1 or C2 exam in November, and although preparation has been so far poor compared to where I hoped I’d be at this point, in a couple of weeks post watching Le Tour de France in French, I’m planning to change things dramatically. However my track record with plans has not been one to write home about. I just need to summon the forces, get into good habits and push myself with the areas of French that matter most when considering such exams or I simply will go in way under-prepared on C-level exam formats.

I find myself dreaming of other languages I might take on post exam, however I’m also planning on completing further studies in nursing to boost my career prospects both here in AU and in the EU (I was informed that further studies will increase my chances of getting work in Belgium (BE) in a hospital as opposed to being only granted access to aged care positions). So whether I can really take on much in the way of language study next year is uncertain. Additionally, were I to pass C2, I’d feel much more comfortable with scaling back my French study, A pass in C1, would see a scale back but to a lesser extent.

Here are the languages I’m seriously considering learning beginning post French exam.

French
As stated, the degree to which I will study French intensively will depend on exam results and at which level I pass/fail.

Dutch
A serious contender for job prospects in BE, a language I’m very keen to learn and teach the children, considering my family’s Dutch heritage, and perhaps the fastest language I can learn, given previous history.

Spanish
No job prospects, but a language like Dutch I’m currently drawn to out of interest of having it become part of the family language learning sphere. Also, imagining my kids grown up with a passive knowledge of or some degree of basic fluency in Spanish, I feel could widen their horizons (who am I to know whether some day Nth or Sth America might be a place they are drawn to).

German
Will open potential employment doors in Luxembourg, Switzerland and to some limited degree, BE as well. But not as important as Dutch in the immediate future as I still need to go to BE first.

Norwegian
My daughter is interested in this language, we have friends in NO, nursing conditions and pay are quite good there, but completing the transitional courses is expensive. I would like to learn it/teach it to the kids and aim for a job in NO some time but it would be a long-shot. I’d have to go to BE first though.

Luxembourgish
Not of immediate concern, but I do like the idea of nursing in LU given the highest rates of pay in the world and multilingual existence one would experience in LU. Unless I was ‘tipped off’ that learning DE and LU would guarantee a well paying job in LU, I’m not likely to undertake this language without first getting a job in LU. Furthermore, it’s too difficult to aim for LU before going to BE first.

Would it be reasonable to take on several languages at once? For example, if I had three hours a day I could divide it like this:
30 min French
30 min Spanish
1 hour Dutch
1 hour Norwegian OR German

Care to share your opinion? Worth a mention is that in theory I might have 3 hours a day for the next two years (2020/21) but if we relocate to EU in 2022, I may no longer be able to spare 3 hours/day. Also, as mentioned, further studies next year and the year after may seriously reduce my language learning time.
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Ice Blue » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:18 am

I think learning two languages at once is very possible - three might work too but could also mean you'd be stretching yourself a bit too thin (that mostly depends on you and how motivated you are in the long run). I used to work on three languages at once and it was fun but I noticed more progress once I started focusing on two. Notice that I wrote "more" progress, not that there wasn't "any" progress when I studied three... but it sure did help when I started spending more time on only two languages instead of three.

Three hours everyday seems like a lot to me - I know if it were me I'd burn out quickly! Reading your post, if I were in your position, I'd choose to start by learning Dutch/Spanish or Dutch/Norwegian (Dutch/German seem a bit too similar for comfort, I know I'd end up mixing them up).

30 minutes French/40 minutes to 1 hour Dutch/40 minutes to 1 hour Norwegian a day seems already like some heavy work (I know you said you could have up to three hours a day but burning out is still a possibility and 40 minutes a day each language would already be good). Also, that depends on what you're planning to do with French at this point : active studying or more like, maintaining what you already know ? (intensive/extensive reading/listening?)

You coul also rotate your languages ; one day you could go for an hour and a half of Dutch, the next an hour and a half of Norwegian.

I know I like to familiarise myself with languages I see myself learning in the future by listening to a lot of songs in that target language, or by watching short videos in it to get used to the sounds of the language. You could do that with Spanish ; find some some songs you like in it, try to see how much you understand, maybe have some fun translating part of those songs or watch short videos on subjects that interest you in Spanish once or twice a week. Nothing that would require too much effort, just little things that'd give you a headstart with that language for when you decide to really get started with it (maybe in a year and a half, when you have made sufficient progress in Dutch or Norwegian and feel like you could add a new language to your daily studies).

Sounds like you have interesting plans :)
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Elsa Maria » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:05 pm

I would not combine Dutch and German - I think it would be hard to avoid interference and mix-ups.
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby overscore » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:28 pm

Elsa Maria wrote:I would not combine Dutch and German - I think it would be hard to avoid interference and mix-ups.

are there really that many false friends?
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