Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

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lusan
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby lusan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:07 pm

Cavesa wrote:
lusan wrote:I began listening to RFI. I like it. However, I am concerned about getting used to slow and simplify language. Would that hurt? I would like to know other experiences about RFI. I did notice too that the speakers do not follow the text all the time, which for me, it is very distracting.


As long as it is challenging a bit, the simplified and slow listening practice is a good activity. But once you are too comfortable, leave it behind. Vast majority of people failing to get to the advanced level listening is not failing because they did or didn't use the slow exercises, subtitles, or whatever else. They fail, because they refuse to take the leap of faith and move on to the harder stuff. That is always the important moment.

So, if you are not that advanced and find the audios hard enough, I'd recommend sticking to them. However, I am not sure whether the transcripts are beneficial to you. It seems (from your post), that you are reading and listening at the same time. That is a great activity for some purposes, but not primarily for listening. Listen without the text (read it afterwards), if you really want to train your ears, and not just pretend to be training them. That way, the differences won't distract you at all :-) It will feel difficult at first, but you won't progress without tackling a challenge from time to time.

And don't worry. Even a too easy exercise won't harm you. It just won't move you forward, that's all.

TL,DR version: I recommend listening to the simple RFI without reading the transcript. When it becomes easy, find harder stuff.


Sure, I plan to drop out of RFI after several months of using it. I still need to build my voca further. Maybe by year end.

What about reading the transcript first and then just listen? Will that work? What about a quick check to the transcript for unknown words?
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badger
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby badger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:20 pm

I tend to just listen first without the transcript - I think it's good practise for dealing with unknown words, but still trying to understand as much as possible. I then listen again with the transcript if I have time.

if I have lots of time I look up all the unknown words & listen again a third time. but that doesn't happen very often. ;)
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addylad
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby addylad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:22 pm

I think RFI is an excellent way to pick up new words. It's slow enough that you can catch them without even having to look them up sometimes. At the moment I've left RFI to watch an episode of C'est pas sorcier and it's great for learning technical words, especially verbs. Plus, you actually learn new things!
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:49 am

veiller au grain > keep an eye on things

https://www.wordreference.com/fren/veiller%20au%20grain
'Grain' here means heavy rain + ('grelons' = hail). It is an expression used by sailors.

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads ... in.193380/
Et pour cause, le lobby de médecine veillait au grain.

Quote from Mondialisation.ca.
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Cavesa
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:51 am

lusan wrote:Sure, I plan to drop out of RFI after several months of using it. I still need to build my voca further. Maybe by year end.

What about reading the transcript first and then just listen? Will that work? What about a quick check to the transcript for unknown words?


It depends on your goals. If picking up the vocabulary is the priority now, then sure, read the transcript, look up stuff, then listen. RFI has a good reputation concerning the vocab it teaches. But don't expect that much of listening progress from this. Your brain will rely on what is easier, which is either reading or remembering what you've just read, not on working with the sound it hears.

No matter at what point you start with more focus on listening, it will be hard. That is why vast majority of English learners never progresses from tv series with subtitles to those without (and that is a whole generation of people I am talking about. My generation), and they struggle with a lot of other kinds of listening exposure as a consequence. They try to turn them off, feel discouraged after ten minutes like "I don't want to waste my time, I should stick to the subtitles for a little longer, then try again", and turn them on again. They try several times before giving up and just accepting "I am just not that good at languages". The transcript to the easier videos is the same thing.

The trick is very simple. Even if you focus on vocab building now and use the transcripts a lot (which is a valid learning strategy), the switch to the real listening training will be hard at first no matter when you do it. Giving your brain enough time to get used to it, that is the trick.

If you are not around B2 yet, don't worry too much about it and use anything you like to get to that point. But when you're there, you will have to either accept some imperfection and initial discomfort, or get stuck forever.
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lusan
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby lusan » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:15 pm

Cavesa wrote:
lusan wrote:Sure, I plan to drop out of RFI after several months of using it. I still need to build my voca further. Maybe by year end.

What about reading the transcript first and then just listen? Will that work? What about a quick check to the transcript for unknown words?


It depends on your goals. If picking up the vocabulary is the priority now, then sure, read the transcript, look up stuff, then listen. RFI has a good reputation concerning the vocab it teaches. But don't expect that much of listening progress from this. Your brain will rely on what is easier, which is either reading or remembering what you've just read, not on working with the sound it hears.

No matter at what point you start with more focus on listening, it will be hard. That is why vast majority of English learners never progresses from tv series with subtitles to those without (and that is a whole generation of people I am talking about. My generation), and they struggle with a lot of other kinds of listening exposure as a consequence. They try to turn them off, feel discouraged after ten minutes like "I don't want to waste my time, I should stick to the subtitles for a little longer, then try again", and turn them on again. They try several times before giving up and just accepting "I am just not that good at languages". The transcript to the easier videos is the same thing.

The trick is very simple. Even if you focus on vocab building now and use the transcripts a lot (which is a valid learning strategy), the switch to the real listening training will be hard at first no matter when you do it. Giving your brain enough time to get used to it, that is the trick.

If you are not around B2 yet, don't worry too much about it and use anything you like to get to that point. But when you're there, you will have to either accept some imperfection and initial discomfort, or get stuck forever.


I loved and reflected upon you advice. I will be dropping all subtitles from now on. I will do it for both Polish and French. The point is that these are listening training objectives and you convinced me that having subtitles will easily drop into reading tasks. Today I tried watching Rodzinka. pl. This is a Polish serial which have more than 12 years. I understood about 80 % of the first episode. Good enough as far as I am concerned to start. Likewise I will do RFI but a little different. As an experiment, I plan to use WorkAudioBook and to do repetitive 1 min cuts of RFI episodes. Thanks for your advice.

The vocabulary building for French will be done someother way.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:31 am

esprit de clocher > parochial attitude

https://www.wordreference.com/fren/espr ... %20clocher

Bien que le nouveau champion ne fût pas un ressortissant de la ville au sens étroit du mot, l'esprit de clocher se réveilla très fort.
quote from le joueur d'échecs, by Stefan Zweig.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:21 am

'feu' can mean late/deceased.

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/feu#Adjectif_2
... deux qualités que feu mon père possédait au plus haut degré.
quote from le joueur d'échecs by Stefan Zweig.
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Thinh_le2306
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Thinh_le2306 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:13 pm

Bonsoir.
Comment allez-vous?
Mon nom est Thinh. Je suis Vietnamien. Je veux étudier le français. Mon français n'est pas bien. Pardon! :D.
I'm sorry, my French level is very basic so I can't really express my idea any further. I'm a novice here and a newbie in this language. I studied French back in secondary school but it went nowhere due to my laziness and the lack of commitment, motivation and passion. Now I want to give it another try and hope you guys can help me.
Thank you very much in advance.
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tomgosse
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby tomgosse » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:13 pm

Thinh_le2306 wrote:Bonsoir.
Comment allez-vous?
Mon nom est Thinh. Je suis Vietnamien. Je veux étudier le français. Mon français n'est pas bien. Pardon! :D.
I'm sorry, my French level is very basic so I can't really express my idea any further. I'm a novice here and a newbie in this language. I studied French back in secondary school but it went nowhere due to my laziness and the lack of commitment, motivation and passion. Now I want to give it another try and hope you guys can help me.
Thank you very much in advance.

Bienvenue Thinh
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