Dutch Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Elsa Maria
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Languages: English (N), Danish (intermediate). Various stages of beginner: Dutch, Latin, Spanish, and Polish
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Elsa Maria » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:47 pm

I posted about this poetry site on the resources board, and tommus rightly pointed out that there are a whopping 532 Dutch poems. So I thought it would be good to also note it here in our study group.

Lyrikline: Listen to the Poet
You get both the text of the poem and audio of the poet reading the poem.
--
How is everyone's Dutch studying coming along? I have been slacking a bit on Dutch, but I just reached a milestone. I finished my first Dutch book: Jip en Janneke: Vierde Boek.

I also bought the themastishche woordenschat book that was recommended. I've started an Anki deck for the 1000 elementaire woordenschat words. Once I get through those, I'll do the 3000 basiswoordenschat. I don't like Anki even a little bit, but I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that it works for me, lol.
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tommus
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:34 pm

Hij is een gevaarlijke man.
Hij is een gevaarlijk man.

It appears that Dutch writers on the Internet use both. A Google search for "een gevaarlijke man" gets 28,000 hits and for "een gevaarlijk man", about 14,000 hits. I see that "gevaarlijk" and "gevaarlijke" act like that with other nouns too.

Could a Dutch native comment on this mixed usage of "gevaarlijk"?

How common are "e" and no "e" mistakes made by native Dutch-speaking writers?

Maybe the next Dutch-language spelling/grammar reform should decide on "e" or no "e" for everything. The Dutch are such a practical people. You would think they would want to eliminate this complication, both for themselves and for those learning Dutch. Maybe when they are at it, they could decide on just "de" and eliminate "het". But there are of course those who see these as interesting characteristics of the language. But they contribute to thousands, probably millions of mistakes.
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tommus
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Moedertaal in Nederlands als Tweede Taal (NT2)

This interesting and very useful site is targeted at Dutch-language teachers who need to tell their students how Dutch differs from their own native language. In the process, this site offers a lot of very useful Dutch grammar and language usage.

The opening page says:

"Welkom in de app van Moedertaal in NT2 (MoedINT2). Hier zijn moedertaalspecifieke problemen en kansen bij het leren van Nederlands te vinden, voor verschillende talen. Klik op de talen in het menu om de belangrijkste verschillen te zien tussen het Nederlands en de betreffende moedertaal."

A literal translation:
Welcome to the app from Moedertaal in NT2. Here are mother language specific problems and opportunities by the learning of Dutch to find, for different languages. Look at the languages in the menu for the most important differences to see between Dutch and the relevant mother language.

The different languages are: English, Marokkaans Arabic, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Syrian Arabic, Czech and Turkish.

The site is only in Dutch but the interface and the explanations are very clear and understandable. However, you can get lost and not really know what is next in the buttons and sections. I recommend going to the end of each section and then using your "Previous" or "Back" browser button to go back a few steps to the menus. Well worth the effort. I learned a lot.

Moedertaal in Nederlands als Tweede Taal (NT2)
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Dutch
40 Boeken
● 35 Ned. Videos
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: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
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: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
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tommus
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:15 pm

I keep wanting to spend more time developing and using "language islands" for Dutch. I think that is a very effective method not only to learn specific subject areas well but also to have at your disposal significant resources of packaged material ready to use, and to adapt. Inspired by rdearman's recent challenge concerning how many people know the various parts of an airplane, I have set some more "language island" goals. One of the obvious ones could be entitled "Around the House". To support developing that "island", I made sure I knew or could learn most of the relevant vocabulary. So I can share that here (in no particular order). Please comment, suggest or add to this list, or put together other lists to support the development of "language islands" in Dutch. To use the "Around the House" vocabulary, it is very effective to just walk around the house, describing out loud everything you see, and perhaps telling little stories about some of the items you encounter. Note any areas where you need more vocabulary or better sentences. Then you can work on developing those areas a bit more.

Code: Select all

fireplace - de openhaard, de kachel
sofa - de bank
floor - de vloer
ceiling - het plafond
lamp - de lamp
ceiling light - het plafondlicht
ceiling lighting - de plafondverlichting
framed picture - de ingelijste afbeelding
window - het raam, het venster
window screen - het vensterscherm
book - de boek
magazine - het tijdschrift
recliner - de relaxfauteuil, de ligstoel
painting - het schilderij
sliding windows - het schuifraam
smoke alarm - de rookmelder
CO alarm - het koolmonoxidealarm
ceiling fan - de plafondventilator
armchair - de fauteuil
wall shelf - de muurplank
binoculars - de verrekijker
light switch - de lichtschakelaar
copper engraving - de kopergravure
decorations - de versieringen, de decoraties
brick - de baksteen
natural stone - de natuursteen
extension cord - het verlengsnoer
powerbar - de stroomstang
heating vent - de verwarmingsopening
cooling vent - de koelventilatieopening
kitchen cupboard - de keukenkast
kitchen stove - de keukenkachel, het keukenfornuis
refrigerator - de koelkast
kitchen sink - het aanrecht
kitchen taps - de keukenkranen
microwave oven - de magnetron
kitchen knive - het keukenmes
fork - de vork
spoon - de lepel
chandelier - de kroonluchter
oven mitt - de ovenwant
pepper and salt - de peper en zout
sugar - de suiker
drinking glass - het drinkglas
cutlery - het bestek
plate - het bord
cup - de kopje, de beker
dishes - de afwas
soap - de zeep
dishwasher - de vaatwasser, de afwasmachine
garbage can - de vuilnisbak
china cabinet - de servieskast
chess board - het schaakbord
chess - het schaak
chess piece - het schaakstuk
doorbell - de deurbel
kitchen - de keuken
living room - de woonkamer
dining room - de eetkamer
bedroom - de slaapkamer
table - de tafel
front window - het voorraam
front door - de voordeur
sewing machine - de naaimachine
stairs - de trap
flashlight - de zaklamp
liquor cabinet - de sterke drank kast
bookcase - de boekenkast
plant - de plant
cutlery chest - de bestekkist
thermostat - de thermostaat
thermometer - de thermometer
kettle - de waterkoker, de ketel
rocking chair - de schommelstoel
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Dutch
40 Boeken
● 35 Ned. Videos
● 370 Univ-Nederland
: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
● 730 Video Nieuws
● 104 Skype NL Chats
● 730 Tekst Nieuws
: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
: 730 / 730

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Kat
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: German (N), English (advanced), Dutch (intermediate)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Kat » Sun May 05, 2019 7:09 pm

Elsa Maria wrote:How is everyone's Dutch studying coming along? I have been slacking a bit on Dutch, but I just reached a milestone. I finished my first Dutch book: Jip en Janneke: Vierde Boek.


Congratulations on finishing your first Dutch book. :)

I'm still not really "studying" but some time ago I bought a couple of Dutch DVDs on a fleamarket which I've started to watch. It's always nice to come accross actual Dutch movies since all the English ones are only subtitled and not dubbed.

And I've found a Dutch musical which looks interesting:



It's called "Ciske de Rat" and it tells the story of a young boy who's growing up on the streets of Amsterdam during the 1930s.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun May 05, 2019 8:56 pm

tommus wrote:I keep wanting to spend more time developing and using "language islands" for Dutch. I think that is a very effective method not only to learn specific subject areas well but also to have at your disposal significant resources of packaged material ready to use, and to adapt.


Yes, this is where I’ve found I like to use specific vocabulary building resources. Perhaps 10 or 15 minutes of vocab study per hour of learning or per day, for example can be a good habit to get into. I’ve bought a number of resources for such study, the most comprehensive one (aside from a dictionary) being this 5 language (NL, EN, FR, ES, DE) 22,500 word, 8000 colour illustrations Van Dale Groot Beeldwoordenboek. It’s divided into chapters, such as the home, sports etc and great for learning intricate vocab such as the names of parts of an aeroplane. I believe you can see inside the book with the link I provided, but I couldn’t get it to load just now on het mobieltje/ the mobile/ le portable/ el móvil/ das mobiltelefon.

Nice vocabulary list there, btw tommus. I might refer to it at some point, cheers.


Kat wrote:
Elsa Maria wrote:How is everyone's Dutch studying coming along? I have been slacking a bit on Dutch, but I just reached a milestone. I finished my first Dutch book: Jip en Janneke: Vierde Boek.


Congratulations on finishing your first Dutch book. :)

I'm still not really "studying" but...


Yes, congrats, Elsa Maria!

I’m also not really studying, but at least thinking about it :) and reading Dutch children’s stories to my kids regularly, which is helping them and myself.

On that note, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any Dutch or Belgian bookstores/websites that will actually post internationally (I’m in Australia) without exorbitant fees. I’ve only one real physical children’s book given to us 5 years back, the rest so far, I’ve had to resort to ebooks and use them on the ipad. Apologies if such resources have already been mentioned in this thread. Also, I don’t mind if a website is not Dutch or Belgian but will post Dutch books to Australia at a reasonable price.
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Kat
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Kat » Tue May 07, 2019 9:33 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:On that note, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any Dutch or Belgian bookstores/websites that will actually post internationally (I’m in Australia) without exorbitant fees.


The first place to check would probably be bol.com, the Dutch equivalent of Amazon. No idea what they charge for a package to Australia or what you consider exorbitant but they list Australia among the countries they ship to.

Shipping charges are a problem for me, too. Even though the Netherlands are a neighboring country, I find shipping rather expensive. It's not really worth it to buy a book for 10 EUR if you have to add another 10 EUR for shipping. For this reason, I buy most of my Dutch stuff on German websites that offer second-hand books.

The selection is, of course, limited and often the foreign language section on those websites is not very well organized, so it can be challenging to find the things you want. However, I've often discovered interesting titles by browsing that I probably would have overlooked on bol.com and they usually offer free or cheap shipping. So if I were you, I'd check Australian websites for second-hand books first.

As I've mentioned, these websites are often not well organized and Dutch books are not always listed in the Dutch section (assuming they even have a Dutch section). I usually search for certain keywords to find them. For example, searching for "druk" (edition) works well for me because it's usually listed as part of the book title and it's not a German or an English word, so I only get Dutch books in the search results this way.
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Elsa Maria
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Elsa Maria » Tue May 07, 2019 3:23 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
On that note, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any Dutch or Belgian bookstores/websites that will actually post internationally (I’m in Australia) without exorbitant fees. I’ve only one real physical children’s book given to us 5 years back, the rest so far, I’ve had to resort to ebooks and use them on the ipad. Apologies if such resources have already been mentioned in this thread. Also, I don’t mind if a website is not Dutch or Belgian but will post Dutch books to Australia at a reasonable price.


You can stalk Austrailia's ebay and any other used book website that you have. I bought my Lekturama Sprookjes books, my thematische woordenschat Nederlands voor anderstaligen, and a Jip en Janneke book on my local ebay.

Do you know about bookfinder? You can search for a book and find out who is selling it. I just searched for Jip en Janneke in Dutch with Australia as the destination, and I got plenty of hits. You could then see the shipping by looking individually at each book. Unfortunately, I did not see a search field for current location of the book.

Obviously, this book buying method takes patience. But I find it rather satisfying :)

I do order physical books from Denmark once in a while, and just suck up the postage bill. Because it is so expensive, I sure do think long and hard about what to order before actually placing the order.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed May 08, 2019 3:23 am

Kat wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:On that note, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any Dutch or Belgian bookstores/websites that will actually post internationally (I’m in Australia) without exorbitant fees.


The first place to check would probably be bol.com, the Dutch equivalent of Amazon. No idea what they charge for a package to Australia or what you consider exorbitant but they list Australia among the countries they ship to.

Shipping charges are a problem for me, too. Even though the Netherlands are a neighboring country, I find shipping rather expensive. It's not really worth it to buy a book for 10 EUR if you have to add another 10 EUR for shipping. For this reason, I buy most of my Dutch stuff on German websites that offer second-hand books.

The selection is, of course, limited and often the foreign language section on those websites is not very well organized, so it can be challenging to find the things you want. However, I've often discovered interesting titles by browsing that I probably would have overlooked on bol.com and they usually offer free or cheap shipping. So if I were you, I'd check Australian websites for second-hand books first.

As I've mentioned, these websites are often not well organized and Dutch books are not always listed in the Dutch section (assuming they even have a Dutch section). I usually search for certain keywords to find them. For example, searching for "druk" (edition) works well for me because it's usually listed as part of the book title and it's not a German or an English word, so I only get Dutch books in the search results this way.


Hi Kat,

Ironically bol.com is the website I linked to for the Groot Beeldwoordenboek in my last post above. I was thinking at the time 'what's this website' but being busy and in the middle of something, I didn't investigate further. Now I know! As for the second-hand books in Australia I do not believe I will have much luck, but you never know. It's a bit like a wasteland here (much like the outback) in terms of foreign language books. The shops that sell them are few and far between, diminishing even further and their range is limited (especially for Dutch), so I think I can safely assume I'll have no luck there (but I will take a look). Thanks for the info, Kat!

Elsa Maria wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
On that note, I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any Dutch or Belgian bookstores/websites that will actually post internationally (I’m in Australia) without exorbitant fees. I’ve only one real physical children’s book given to us 5 years back, the rest so far, I’ve had to resort to ebooks and use them on the ipad. Apologies if such resources have already been mentioned in this thread. Also, I don’t mind if a website is not Dutch or Belgian but will post Dutch books to Australia at a reasonable price.


You can stalk Austrailia's ebay and any other used book website that you have. I bought my Lekturama Sprookjes books, my thematische woordenschat Nederlands voor anderstaligen, and a Jip en Janneke book on my local ebay.

Do you know about bookfinder? You can search for a book and find out who is selling it. I just searched for Jip en Janneke in Dutch with Australia as the destination, and I got plenty of hits. You could then see the shipping by looking individually at each book. Unfortunately, I did not see a search field for current location of the book.

Obviously, this book buying method takes patience. But I find it rather satisfying :)

I do order physical books from Denmark once in a while, and just suck up the postage bill. Because it is so expensive, I sure do think long and hard about what to order before actually placing the order.


Ah bookfinder... This kind of rings a bell, I think. Sounds like a good resource. I think I've used it before when not meaning to, via google and just searching titles etc... perhaps a long time ago now. I'll check it out. Yes, unfortunately even the French books on amazon.fr have crazy taxes on them now. This was not the case a few years back. And then amazon.fr and other international sites completely stopped me (and other people with Australian addresses) from ordering from overseas amazon sites. I wouldn't mind so much if they had a decent range on their aussie website, but they don't. Some French books here and there, not so bad, for now (hoping it will improve), but next to nothing I want in Dutch comes up. I do hope that changes.... Thanks for the tips too Elsa Maria!
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri May 10, 2019 12:25 am

Kat wrote:
The first place to check would probably be bol.com, the Dutch equivalent of Amazon.


Elsa Maria wrote:Do you know about bookfinder?


Udate...

As it turns out, bol.com is useful IF I order in bulk. As an example, the shipping charges on one DVD are just over 26 euros. That is exorbitant. However, were I to order multiple items, the price doesn't seem to rise, and eventually becomes free. As an example I could basically by the Peter Pan DVD (with both French and Dutch audio tracks - that's what I'm after for my kids, both language tracks), it would cost 65 Australian dollars to all up to have it in my Australian hands from bol.com. On the other hand, were I to buy the two separate language versions via iTunes (I can't find them together on one purchase as the language tracks FR and NL are not available from a single iTunes store), the cost is a tad under $50 AUD from memory. However, were I to order 10 DVDs (shipping costs remain 26 euros), each one would be essentially (averaged out) around $32 AUD, which is then more competitive. And if I bought even more, the cost would come down more as the shipping would become free. All in all, I may use bol.com in future to place in a blue moon bulk order on DVDs and some books (perhaps xmas would be a good time) then it's better than what I can currently get.

As for bookfinder.com, it looks useful too! I tested it out and seemed to have found a used copy of an Assimil course I'd tried to order previously from other locations, but my delay in purchasing cost me - they disappeared (someone else bought them). I found it on bookfinder.com and I have ordered, but not paid yet, so I hope it comes through (i'm waiting on the seller to send the payment request).

So, thanks again guys!

(edited to cut out the other large quotations)
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