April 2019 LLORG Poll

Discuss the LLORG's and HTLAL forum's past and its future here.
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eido
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April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby eido » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:02 am

New poll, new thread.

I plan on doing these every six months for the foreseeable future, as long as my schedule allows. This poll asks slightly different questions this time, and tries to place them in a logical order. Hopefully it’s better than the first version of the poll and makes more sense than my hastily-put-together beta-like assemblage and class assignment from 2018.

The poll is in English, and uses Google Forms. You don’t have to sign in to submit your answers.

I will keep it open for about two weeks starting at the time of this posting, which is a Friday evening for me. Please only submit one response and be honest in your replies.

Here is the link to the poll.

I would really appreciate your responses!
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby Cavesa » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:44 am

Looks great! Thanks!

Just a question:
How much time do you spend studying the language (with a course book, SRS, completing exercises, etc.)?

You mean per week, do I guess right?

What are the major reasons you're studying a language? Pick at most two.

Just two? This is cruel! It is hard to pick fewer than four. :-D
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby golyplot » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:48 am

Oops, I didn't even see the "at most 2" bit and picked 3 options. Speaking of which, it makes no sense to limit target languages to 2. Also, you're missing timeframe in the hours question as mentioned above.

Also, I was kind of saddened by the "how many languages can you speak at a B2 level" question, since it is unfair to people who aren't aiming for B2 speaking ability.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby PfifltriggPi » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:59 am

golyplot wrote:Oops, I didn't even see the "at most 2" bit and picked 3 options. Speaking of which, it makes no sense to limit target languages to 2. Also, you're missing timeframe in the hours question as mentioned above.

Also, I was kind of saddened by the "how many languages can you speak at a B2 level" question, since it is unfair to people who aren't aiming for B2 speaking ability.


As one of those persons, I very much agree. I live in a mostly monolingual Anglophone environment, so there are numerous languages I can read decently to quite well, but can't speak but haltingly, simply because I never get any opportunity to do so.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby eido » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:33 am

golyplot wrote:Also, I was kind of saddened by the "how many languages can you speak at a B2 level" question, since it is unfair to people who aren't aiming for B2 speaking ability.

I had a question in the previous poll that asked about which skills people were focusing on, to be fair. But it was worded a bit oddly, and I didn't know how to fix it. Assume "speak" means "understand" or "use," whether that means "read" or "write." Don't attack me ;)
And to me, it does make sense to limit it.
PfifltriggPi wrote:As one of those persons, I very much agree. I live in a mostly monolingual Anglophone environment, so there are numerous languages I can read decently to quite well, but can't speak but haltingly, simply because I never get any opportunity to do so.

See the above.
Cavesa wrote:You mean per week, do I guess right?
Just two? This is cruel! It is hard to pick fewer than four. :-D

Yes, you're right.

And yeah, it may be, but I'm only interested in the primary reasons as opposed to all the competing ones a person may have.

EDIT: @golyplot -- I changed the question a bit, but I'm still limiting the other question to two because I'm not going to have people listing their 47 target languages on the poll. The idea is to put which ones you put the most time into a week, not which ones you dream about, or spend five minutes on on Duolingo every other week.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby Brun Ugle » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:46 am

In the question about methods, you list audio-lingual courses with Michel Thomas and Pimsleur as examples. They are audio-based courses, but I don’t think they are audio-lingual, at least from what little I’ve heard. The audio-lingual method has a lot of rapid-fire grammar drills, like in FSI courses. So, I think you need to either change audio-lingual to audio-based, if you are interested in people studying using Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and similar methods, or change the examples to reflect audio-lingual courses, if that’s what you’re looking for. Or perhaps have both on the list since they are completely different methods.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby eido » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:51 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:In the question about methods, you list audio-lingual courses with Michel Thomas and Pimsleur as examples. They are audio-based courses, but I don’t think they are audio-lingual, at least from what little I’ve heard. The audio-lingual method has a lot of rapid-fire grammar drills, like in FSI courses. So, I think you need to either change audio-lingual to audio-based, if you are interested in people studying using Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and similar methods, or change the examples to reflect audio-lingual courses, if that’s what you’re looking for. Or perhaps have both on the list since they are completely different methods.

Ah, no one had a problem with it last time. Someone should have corrected me.
EDIT: according to this article, Pimsleur and FSI are very similar. Does what Pimsleur do not count as drills?
EDIT 2: relevant thread
EDIT 3: also, which other language families should I add to the questions about native and target languages? I added "Creole" and "Ancient" to the "target" section after looking at the results from the last poll, but I'm not sure what else to add. Obviously we have a diverse user base, with a wide array of native languages and target languages. I just didn't want the check-box list to become cumbersomely long by including every possible family. That, too, though, is a bit illogical.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby Brun Ugle » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:08 pm

eido wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:In the question about methods, you list audio-lingual courses with Michel Thomas and Pimsleur as examples. They are audio-based courses, but I don’t think they are audio-lingual, at least from what little I’ve heard. The audio-lingual method has a lot of rapid-fire grammar drills, like in FSI courses. So, I think you need to either change audio-lingual to audio-based, if you are interested in people studying using Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and similar methods, or change the examples to reflect audio-lingual courses, if that’s what you’re looking for. Or perhaps have both on the list since they are completely different methods.

Ah, no one had a problem with it last time. Someone should have corrected me.
EDIT: according to this article, Pimsleur and FSI are very similar. Does what Pimsleur do not count as drills?
EDIT 2: relevant thread
EDIT 3: also, which other language families should I add to the questions about native and target languages? I added "Creole" and "Ancient" to the "target" section after looking at the results from the last poll, but I'm not sure what else to add. Obviously we have a diverse user base, with a wide array of native languages and target languages. I just didn't want the check-box list to become cumbersomely long by including every possible family. That, too, though, is a bit illogical.

I only skimmed the article quickly, but I didn’t see where it said Pimsleur was anything like FSI. From the little I used Pimsleur, it seemed to me that for exercises, they would just ask you what you would say in various situations. For example, “Your soup is cold. Tell the waiter your soup is too cold and you want it heated.”

FSI is heavy on grammar drills (ie the heart of the audiolingual method. For example:
Teacher: Tengo un coche negro.
Student (repeats): Tengo un coche negro.
Teacher: Él
Student: Tiene un coche negro.
Teacher: Nosotros
Student: Tenemos un coche negro.
Teacher: Rojo
Student: Tenemos un coche rojo.
Teacher: Casa
Student: Tenemos una casa roja.
Etc.
It’s all done very fast with little time for thinking. The pauses are long enough to say the sentence, but not to think about the grammar. It’s designed to make the grammar automatic.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby eido » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:17 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:I only skimmed the article quickly, but I didn’t see where it said Pimsleur was anything like FSI. From the little I used Pimsleur, it seemed to me that for exercises, they would just ask you what you would say in various situations. For example, “Your soup is cold. Tell the waiter your soup is too cold and you want it heated.”

Maybe I should have included this, but I concluded they were similar based on the "characteristics" section in the article. I also Googled audiolingual method with "Pimsleur" and found that people were calling Pimsleur that. I understand what you're saying, and I wasn't sure, but I also thought that the LLORG thread I linked tried to distinguish between the two, maybe noting Pimsleur was part of it but not what the OP wanted? On the first page, I mean.
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Re: April 2019 LLORG Poll

Postby Brun Ugle » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:49 pm

eido wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:I only skimmed the article quickly, but I didn’t see where it said Pimsleur was anything like FSI. From the little I used Pimsleur, it seemed to me that for exercises, they would just ask you what you would say in various situations. For example, “Your soup is cold. Tell the waiter your soup is too cold and you want it heated.”

Maybe I should have included this, but I concluded they were similar based on the "characteristics" section in the article. I also Googled audiolingual method with "Pimsleur" and found that people were calling Pimsleur that. I understand what you're saying, and I wasn't sure, but I also thought that the LLORG thread I linked tried to distinguish between the two, maybe noting Pimsleur was part of it but not what the OP wanted? On the first page, I mean.

Audiolingual generally refers to the drilling method I described, but it seems some people refer to anything containing a large amount of audio as audiolingual. It’s not though. It refers to a specific method of teaching using rapid drilling techniques until responses become completely automatic. It’s one of my favorite methods, but it’s quite different from Pimsleur and Michel Thomas, so I don’t think I’d put them in the same category as they often seem to appeal to different kinds of people.
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