Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby Skynet » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:11 pm

DISCLAIMER: I am neither married nor have children.

PM, how did your in-laws become so aggrandised to the point of dictating how you are to speak with your children? I can empathise (barely) with their aversion to your Dutch misdemeanours with your wife (Oh, the temerity of speaking privately with your wife!), but they have absolutely no right to say anything about your relationship with your children. If anything, they should be picking up French so that they can find something in common with them! It's not as if you were clandestinely speaking in French, it was obvious and they knew this prior to their accepting you before your KSA departure! Do they really want to be debriefed on a private chat between a dad and a 4 year old? This kind of brinkmanship only succeeds in creating an insurmountable chasm between you and the overreaching in-laws. I was under the impression that one only had presumptuous governments trying to redefine what constitutes an acceptable relationship with one's children to contend with, but impertinent in-laws!? They are not to be tolerated at all.

Oh, and about trying to convince you to give up on your KSA adventure? Well, they can only give gentle suggestions (as we all have here when you brought it up), but that's it. Ultimately, you and your wife decide what is best for your children, not the children's grandparents.

Methinks you should talk to them politely (after all, they are your wife's parents and children's grandparents) and tell them that you will continue to speak to them (children) in French and that they are more than welcome to learn French or simply continue to speak to them (grandchildren) in English. Keeping quiet since Dutch-gate is what emboldened them to dictate these terms to you.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:30 pm

Skynet wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am neither married nor have children.

PM, how did your in-laws become so aggrandised to the point of dictating how you are to speak with your children? I can empathise (barely) with their aversion to your Dutch misdemeanours with your wife (Oh, the temerity of speaking privately with your wife!), but they have absolutely no right to say anything about your relationship with your children. If anything, they should be picking up French so that they can find something in common with them! It's not as if you were clandestinely speaking in French, it was obvious and they knew this prior to their accepting you before your KSA departure! Do they really want to be debriefed on a private chat between a dad and a 4 year old? This kind of brinkmanship only succeeds in creating an insurmountable chasm between you and the overreaching in-laws. I was under the impression that one only had presumptuous governments trying to redefine what constitutes an acceptable relationship with one's children to contend with, but impertinent in-laws!? They are not to be tolerated at all.

Oh, and about trying to convince you to give up on your KSA adventure? Well, they can only give gentle suggestions (as we all have here when you brought it up), but that's it. Ultimately, you and your wife decide what is best for your children, not the children's grandparents.


Perhaps I am in biased company here, however, because...

...A quick search of the internet provides me with a swathe of, I think predominantly monolingual English speakers, considering it rude for others to speak foreign languages around them when those same people could conduct a conversation in English (side note: it's not hard for 'the powers that be' to figure out what I'm thinking about is it? Isn't the internet just wonderful Mr PM, sure is Mr Puppet Master). Hell, if this ends up the unspoken international 'rule', before long everyone in the fucking EU will be speaking English to accommodate for all the insecurities of the monolinguals, or those with only ;) English plus whatever their native European language may be.

Yes my feathers are ruffled. I really want to stick it to them and continue to do WTF I feel is right, regardless of their insecurities. Yes you are onto something, lots of political talk with my 4 y/o and discussions on how we are going to overthrow the household in a military-style coup with sticks from the bush and leaves with scary drawings on them. In the end we'll have them all speaking French dammit... ahahahahahaha (evil laugh, of course) :?

I think by this stage in their lives they don't think much of me, because they know next to NOTHING about me... why? Because anything I might want to disucss leads nowhere much at all, since it would reveal too much of my character, a character they simply wouldn't like and would have to feel the need to change or worse call for psychological evaluation on, because I don't fit with how I should - i.e. a drone who thinks and acts as expected. It may sound as though I am ranting, or being harsh, perhaps I am, but the thing is, they judge everyone who does not live the way they do. It's bullshit and I'm f**ng pissed I seemingly have to comply with their insular xenophobic dictatorship. Grrrrrrrrr
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby rdearman » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:33 pm

Happy medium here I think. You make an agreement with them. While staying in their house you will speak in English only. When they visit your house in future, they will speak only in French or Arabic. Compromise right? So if they want to see their grandchildren, they learn another language or they butt the hell out of how you raise your kids. If they pick the first option, tell them about the forum. We'll be happy to help them learn another language. :twisted:

EDIT: If they argue that it isn't right for them to be forced to speak a language they normally wouldn't just to stay with family.... well, they really don't have a leg to stand on do they?
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:42 pm

rdearman wrote:When they visit your house in future, they will speak only in French or Arabic.


I wish! Years ago, prior to them visiting Europe (including France), I lent them Hugo French in 3 Months. They returned it not having done much, if any of it, perhaps a few weeks later as it was deemed too difficult. To be fair, it seems they were just after some tourist phrase-book style learn 5 minutes before you arrive kind of thing. I thought I would've at least gained some respect then (that what I 'do' takes some kind of effort, and imparting a language onto my children is no easy feat and requires certain strict boundaries). For them, taking the learning of another language seriously would be the perfect scenario, as they simply lack understanding. It's late, I need to get over my anger and go to sleep, attentive children with boundless energy await me in the early hours - and I must INDOCTRINATE THEM WITH FRENCH!!!!! :twisted:
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby Cèid Donn » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Hi, I am still very new to this forum and to the regular users here, so I don't want to intrude too much, but I was reading your recent posts and to be very honest, I am very alarmed by the situation that you are describing here. I'm not married and I'm a not a parent, but I do work in education in a largely bilingual school district here in the US, so I work regularly with issues regarding parental and children rights, and in my case, that most definitely includes parents' right to advocate for their children and their right to speak to their children in a language the child understands. These are issue of child welfare, full stop. It doesn't matter why your child primarily expects you speak to her in French. That's the language she knows and uses to make sense of her world and her relationship with you, and no one has the right to say that you, her parent, have to change the way you have been communicating with her as this is part of your parental bond with her. Something like this is unnecessarily disruptive to your child's ability to understand her surroundings and her relationship with you, and it's not your in-laws' right to do that to your child.

The other thing is--and I know this forum likes to smile and play nice and avoid uncomfortable topics but here I go--that, from your description of your in-laws' behavior and your own emotional reactions, this domestic situation appears to be escalating and not in a good way. Understand that this is not your fault and that you're trying to do what's best for your family. But because human nature is depressingly predictable, it's safe to say your in-laws have been like this for a very long time and aren't going to change willingly as long as they think they have power over you and your wife. If your wife's first response to how to contain the situation is to not rock the boat, she probably knows just how bad your in-laws can get if the situation continues to escalates and I don't think anyone wants that to happen. Even if you manage to tough it out and get to Saudi Arabia, this isn't something that's going to evaporate on its own. So the best thing to do, I think, would be to seek out some expert advice and insight, either online or from organizations in your area, on how to deal with individuals like your in-laws before a huge, hurtful argument (or worse) erupts. Best of luck to you and your family and take care.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby Ani » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:39 pm

I'm totally on board with Cèid Donn's post. This could be potentially very upsetting to your daughter, and right before a big move. Children are *very* attached to language expectations.

My in-laws hate me, are also very controlling and after 10+ years I'm pretty much done compromising. It doesn't help anything and they look for the next thing to control. Not rocking the boat has done nothing for my marriage. In fact, one time I politely asked my FIL for a pan so I could make my kids an afternoon snack and he verbally attacked me because he wanted us to eat on his schedule, cursing and screaming while I had one baby on my hip and another clinging to my legs. In the fallout from everything my husband and I almost got divorced. All I'm saying here is that it doesn't help to "keep the peace" with overly controlling people. Courtesy is one thing and compliance is another. We're all doing better with my sky high, rock solid boundaries these days.

I'd look for another place to stay, honestly. Tell them they can either accept your family as it is, or you can leave. You can be courteous and polite, but there needs to be respect for you act your wife as adults who make the decisions for their children.

This is a stressful time for all of you and they're adding to that in an awful way. I wish you the best.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby Xmmm » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:55 pm

You have to stick up for yourself, PM.

Mentally rehearse, get yourself under control, promise yourself you won't respond in kind to any provocation--no matter what. Then politely say you can't live by their rules, pack up and get out. Within the next 24 hours.

The way these family situations blow up, is that everyone gets out of control and starts screaming and saying things they really shouldn't say. Then everybody owes everybody else an apology. You want to avoid all that.

So ... be polite! But leave!
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:36 pm

I truly appreciate the replies and support, (thank you Cèid Donn, Ani and Xmmm), but I’m so torn...

We are not living with them yet, as we’re set to move in on the 8th of Jan, but we are to see them tomorrow edit: in two days (Christmas Day), and there’ll be a gathering. I will be seen as provocative if I continue to speak to my children in French (and I absolutely want to now). All this after both of them have just been discharged from hospital-one of them was in a critical situation. It will be very hard for me not to come our of this volatile situation being seen as the bad one, very hard.

My wife does not want to rock the boat one bit and I will be seen as pigheaded if I stand my ground, possibly be seen clearly as the one who’s destroying Christmas and her and the kids relationship with them.

My wife (and I) would like the kids time with their grandparents prior to moving overseas to be special. My sister and I didn’t have a relationship with our father’s parents because of a feud between them and my mother, it’s something I desperately want to avoid.

Generally they never get rough and nasty, ever. All their control is passive agressive and crafty manipulation. Tbh, I’m more likely to explode than they are.

We don’t have many options. We have to be out of our house on the 8th. My MIL will be very busy working, while my FIL is semi retired and likely to be home practically every day as we’re in holiday season and he’ll still be recovering from recent serious illness. My wife absolutely does not want to take this time away from being spent with her family. It’s such a nice setting in the Australian bush too, it’s great for the kids and I’ve always encouraged them to spend time there in nature with their grandparents, but then there’s this bloody issue! I already suggested I stay elsewhere, my wife thinks I’m being absurd when I could just speak English for a few weeks and move on.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby Xmmm » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:52 pm

Ah, well if your wife is not actually on your side, that's another kettle of fish. My advice is to keep your wife happy at all costs.

Maybe you could go on daily three hour nature walks that the grandparents can't keep up with. :)
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and Dutch

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:54 pm

Xmmm wrote:Ah, well if your wife is not actually on your side, that's another kettle of fish. My advice is to keep your wife happy at all costs.

Maybe you could go on daily three hour nature walks that the grandparents can't keep up with. :)


Actually this morning she does demonstrate being on my side but she wants to convey that she’s not really wanting to create a big family feud just before going overseas, thus she’s trying to find a solution. We’re discussing it and attempting to find a that elusive solution...

Yeah, the nature walk/avoidance thing is sth I’m seriously considering, but it still will result in tension and still means I have to modify my both my behaviour and my relationships all round. There seems to be no easy fix. It would mean that I also go out of my way to avoid family dinners etc
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