Team Middle East

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
Ghalib Al-Hakkak
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ghalib Al-Hakkak » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:58 am

Hello,

I would like to mention what I did with Quizlet. You can find here : http://www.al-hakkak.fr/Quizlet-anglais.html

And you can find more ressources when visiting my site : https://www.al-hakkak.fr

Ghalib Al-Hakkak
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Ogrim
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:13 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Two questions, for anyone experienced or not.

1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

(eg can it be done, positives/neg’s, your experience if attempted, time/investment of self required, should dialect be avoided initially or MSA avoided in the beginning, etc)

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2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?

This is a bit vague, so say what comes to mind in your experience with learning Arabic or your judgements if you have not studied it based on whatever it may be. What’s good progress? You tell me, I’m really looking to open a bit more discussion here on endeavouring to learn Arabic from scratch. What’s it take. If you want a level, I’ll say B2, but that’s not strict for the purpose of creating some discussion.
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I’ve read quite a bit already on the above, but just wondering if ppl here have an opinion.


Ancient forest gave a really good answer to the first question, so I won't go much into that. My Langenscheidt course has recordings of the dialogues in MSA, Egyptian and Syrian dialects, but I prefer to focus only on MSA. Now if I were to go and live in an Arab speaking country, I would probably be tempted to dive into the local dialect, but not without a minimum base in MSA, at least I would learn the script first.

On your second question, from my own experience I would say: as much as you can. Seriously though, I think it is more important to be consistent and try to do at least something every day. One mistake I've made is to have bouts of activity where I could spend maybe 5 to 8 hours over a weekend, but then not open my course book again until the following Thursday. If you manage to study effectively at least an hour a day, seven days a week, you should be able to progress well. The script will take a bit of time to get used to, but it is not as hard as it may seem, it is a question of practice.
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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:44 am

ancient forest wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

Some purists to Classical Arabic would be totally against the idea of studying both at the same time. They would first want the person to master Classical Arabic so that it does not mix with the dialect. Yet, if such a student were to take a taxi without any knowledge of the local dialect or modern usage, he might say something to the taxi driver in the equivalent of: "Indeed, I desire to hasten to thy vicinity's marketplace."

I am not necessarily against learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but I think that there are different goals in learning Arabic such as reading the newspaper/speaking in MSA, researching Classical texts, speaking a dialect fluently, etc. These goals are almost different skill sets, and mastering all of them is really what takes Arabic so long to learn. If one focuses on a particular goal, it will not take nearly as long to learn Arabic. So, I don't see a problem in learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but if you focus on one particular goal and perhaps do a bit of enrichment in other areas, you will see faster improvement towards your goal.

PeterMollenburg wrote:2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?
I'm not sure.


Thank you for the feedback ancient forest. Sounds logical your conclusion on the matter.

Ogrim wrote:Ancient forest gave a really good answer to the first question, so I won't go much into that. My Langenscheidt course has recordings of the dialogues in MSA, Egyptian and Syrian dialects, but I prefer to focus only on MSA. Now if I were to go and live in an Arab speaking country, I would probably be tempted to dive into the local dialect, but not without a minimum base in MSA, at least I would learn the script first.

On your second question, from my own experience I would say: as much as you can. Seriously though, I think it is more important to be consistent and try to do at least something every day. One mistake I've made is to have bouts of activity where I could spend maybe 5 to 8 hours over a weekend, but then not open my course book again until the following Thursday. If you manage to study effectively at least an hour a day, seven days a week, you should be able to progress well. The script will take a bit of time to get used to, but it is not as hard as it may seem, it is a question of practice.


Thanks Ogrim. It seems that, while wanting to learn an Arabic dialect, whether simutaneously or not, beginning with MSA solely sounds like a wise idea. So it is now my intention to start with an MSA course perhaps solely and perhaps up until arrival in Riyadh when I’m likely to choose the FSI or DLI Saudi Arabic course and do it simultaneously alongside the MSA course (I’ve chosen Ghalib Al-Hakkak‘s Manuel d’arabe), provided I have sufficient time. And yes, consistent, regular study also sounds wise. Je te remercie, Ogrim.
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shandra
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby shandra » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:05 am

Hi everyone!

You've fed my curiosity about Arabic in general, so I've leafed through a book for beginners (Mastering Arabic by Wightwick and Gaafar).

I find the Arabic script extremely fascinating, but really intimidating.

Just to say, I've never had problems with ideograms: I recognize the main radicals and rapidly write the given kanji/hanzi in my notebook.

But Arabic looks so alien, despite been an alphabet. And not having vowels marked makes me feel hopeless, how one can read correctly new words in a sentence?

I'm worried more for the script than for grammar :?

(Sorry for this break. I've read with pleasure all your contributions to the main topic :))
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ancient forest
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Languages: English (N), Classical and Standard Arabic (advanced), Levantine Arabic (low-intermediate)
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby ancient forest » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:59 am

shandra wrote:Hi everyone!

You've fed my curiosity about Arabic in general, so I've leafed through a book for beginners (Mastering Arabic by Wightwick and Gaafar).

I find the Arabic script extremely fascinating, but really intimidating.

Just to say, I've never had problems with ideograms: I recognize the main radicals and rapidly write the given kanji/hanzi in my notebook.

But Arabic looks so alien, despite been an alphabet. And not having vowels marked makes me feel hopeless, how one can read correctly new words in a sentence?

I'm worried more for the script than for grammar :?

(Sorry for this break. I've read with pleasure all your contributions to the main topic :))


My wife is learning Arabic and has been teaching the alphabet to some of her friends, so I asked her for a suggestion about materials for learning the alphabet and Arabic script. She recommended the YouTube video channel of Imran Alawiye called Gateway to Arabic Institute. In particular, she recommended the playlist 'Arabic from the Beginning.' I took a look at one of the videos, and it looks really helpful.
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Ghalib Al-Hakkak
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ghalib Al-Hakkak » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:15 pm

Another book I hope will interest you:

http://www.al-hakkak.fr/PDF/Arabic-conjugation.pdf
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Systematiker
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Systematiker » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:34 pm

All this activity in the thread has been pretty cool!

I’m one of the less active members of this team, at least so far, and this team has seen me begin, abandon, and now return to Arabic (as well as waffle about Modern Hebrew, and do everything in fits and starts).

I’ve appreciated the information recently, as my new attempt is with a study partner and focuses on a dialect; I’ve been encouraged to look at MSA as well. I’d be curious to know more about the diglossia situation, as I’ve always thought that the dialects were spoken variations from the unified MSA written standard, but that seems not to be the case, as I’m seeing dialect written.

I’ve read that for some dialects (especially Levantine ones), the difference between the urban dialect and MSA is primarily in a core of ~500 terms, and otherwise there’s a great deal of similarity (which would speak for concurrent study), but that was anecdotal and I don’t know if it’s true.
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shandra
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby shandra » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:07 pm

ancient forest wrote:My wife (...) recommended the YouTube video channel of Imran Alawiye called Gateway to Arabic Institute. In particular, the playlist Arabic from the Beginning.
Thank her for the suggestion! I've watched the first video and it was clear and interesting.

I've just downloaded an app (I like the ones teaching scripts by TenguLogi) and I'm trying to understand how letters work in various positions. Tomorrow I'll read carefully the explanation in Modern Arabic, the book I mentioned before.

For the moment, instead of words I see dotted waves :?

@PeterMollenburg
And you? Have you started exploring the alphabet?
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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 am

Ghalib Al-Hakkak wrote:Another book I hope will interest you:

http://www.al-hakkak.fr/PDF/Arabic-conjugation.pdf


Thank you again Ghalib, I'm sure this will be put to good use :) Very kind of you to share it with us.



shandra wrote:@PeterMollenburg
And you? Have you started exploring the alphabet?


Nothing yet for me at all with Arabic. I've at least expanded my knowledge on dialects and MSA, which courses teach what and in the end selected which ones to use given my circumstances. I am not sure when I will start, but I have some resources on the way, so I think that I'm likely to start the day after they arrive. One thing I want to improve on when I think back to my French studies with course material is to not spread myself too thinly. I'd like to take a minimalist approach and systematically work through one course at a time before picking up another. Unless I find myself needing supplementation or something for pure listening for example. So although it seems around these parts most ppl here are in the earlier stages of learning Arabic, I've not even learned one syllable. Why am I hesitating starting? Well, after pretty solid French study I thought I deserved a little down time and resource gathering time. I'll get pretty serious soon. :)

edit: typos
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shandra
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby shandra » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:29 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:I'd like to take a minimalist approach and systematically work through one course at a time before picking up another. Unless I find myself needing supplementation or something for pure listening for example.
A wise choice.
One of my weak points is to gather hoard resources instead of studying :?
I will going on with the first I found because I like its organization.

I've expanded my knowledge on dialects and MSA too, thanks to all you forum members here.

I've never planned to start with Arabic, so I haven't any clear expectation yet. What I've understood is that the best thing, given my circumstances, is to start with MSA.

One day, when or if I'll improve my knowledge, I could switch to Egyptian, the variety most common between the immigrants in my city (=real people I could talk to).

But I am quite pessimistic about Listening and Speaking. For example, for me is really difficult to recognize and to produce the aspirated / not aspirated pairs. And all those sounds from the throat... Today my limits seem insurmountable!

Thanks for your kind support :)
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