Robierre’s French C2 log

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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:48 pm

Arnaud wrote:Plus précisément, concernant les livres, ce sont les trois côtés autres que le dos, qui peuvent être dorés ou décorés.
Ton niveau est stratosphérique, j'ai pour ma part dû vérifier la définition d'oratoire = petite chapelle

Merci Arnaud, je connaissais déjà la tranche de pain et de charcuterie, maintenant je sais qu'un livre a aussi des tranches. :mrgreen: Quant à l'oratoire sur un chemin de croix, j'imagine quelque chose comme ça:
Image
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:59 pm

patrickwilken wrote:
WRT to films, it's just really a matter of watching TV and not going out at night. Not too hard if you limit your social life. :)

I have read a lot of German, but none of the classics yet, so that's something definitely work towards over the next year.

Well that's not too hard, my social life is already very limited. :mrgreen:
Germans have great classics, you really have a good choice. B2+ is the perfect moment to start with it and learn all the fancy vocabulary you'll need on C-levels.
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby patrickwilken » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:06 am

Robierre wrote:Germans have great classics, you really have a good choice. B2+ is the perfect moment to start with it and learn all the fancy vocabulary you'll need on C-levels.


I almost want to be a slightly higher level to really get the most out of reading them. :)

I think I might look first for more contemporary literature via the Deutscher Buchpreis: https://www.deutscher-buchpreis.de/en/
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:07 pm

@patrickwilken
I wish I could read all this!!




4th year
Week 7


Saturday morning on Wikipedia. Drinking coffee, I found out that:

-there are just two big countries in West Africa that are not French speaking: Ghana and Nigeria (both English speaking)
-there are other two smaller English speaking countries in this region: Liberia and Sierra Leone
-the words anglophone/francophone don't mean that those languages are actually spoken by the whole population of these countries; in some of them it might be 10 % in others 90 %; but mostly they have a status of the official language (among other languages)
-there are also some Portuguese speaking countries in West Africa (Guinea Bissau, Cape Verde etc.)
-Western Sahara was under Spanish dominance
-Mozambique in East Africa is part of the lusophone (Portuguese speaking) world
-the number of Russian native speakers in Baltic countries varies from 10 % in Lithuania to more than 30 % in Latvia and Estonia
-most of the population in these countries can speak some Russian (around 70% I guess)
-around 40 % of school children in Croatia learn German, 10 % Italian, only 1-3 % French; everyone learns English

(...)

Next week I'm traveling to Italy. My last Italian trip was in February 2017 (Milano-Novara-Torino-Genova-Lucca-Firenze-Bergamo-Milano). This time it's going to be just a long weekend in Sicily. In the meantime I stopped learning Italian so I'm curious what will be my reaction to this trip.

My relationship with Italian is so complex: I was ignoring it most of my life and then, in my late twenties, I started to learn it without even knowing that one year later I'll move to Italy. After a short period full of contradictions I suddenly fell in love with this language. It wasn't planed, I wasn't event trying too hard to like it, it just happened. Years were passing by, my life went in other direction. Now I'm surrounded by French, my enthusiasm for Italian was slowly fading away and at some point I started to ignore (dislike?) it again. But deep in my heart... (?)
(To be continued)
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:31 pm

4th year
Week 8 & 9


Image

Pisao sam o svojim odnosima s jezicima, ali odnosi s gradovima su skoro pa isto takvi - kao s ljudima.
Nisam uspio zavoljeti ni Amsterdam, ni Luksemburg ni Antwerpen. Odmah su mi se svidjeli Genova, Metz, Bologna (u svaki sam se više puta vraćao). S vremenom sam zavolio Parmu, ni danas je nisam prebolio. Na prvi pogled sam zavolio Zagreb, teško bi mi palo da ga više ne vidim. Nakon više posjeta uspio sam naći pozitivne strane čak i u Milanu i u Veneciji, koje sam ispočetka mrzio. Iz nekog razloga se vraćam u Frankfurt, prilično ružan grad. Iz nekog razloga se ne vraćam u London i Berlin, iako mi je tamo bilo super. Iz nekog razloga se stalno vraćam u Pariz gdje sam proveo dva mjeseca. Obožavam Rovinj. Vratio bih se u Beograd i Lille, ne bih u Oslo i Rotterdam. Itd.

Pišem ovo jer sam se prošli tjedan zaljubio u Palermo. Tih četiri dana mi se još čine kao neki mutni san. Teško mi je uopće definirati što mi se konkretno svidjelo jer predivne arhitekture ima i u drugim gradovima, južnjačku atmosferu sam doživio i u Ateni i u Rimu, noćne vreve sam vidio i u Sofiji i u Tirani, svagdje ima nešto interesantno. Ali ovdje je valjda bila neka kombinacija detalja koji su se toliko brzo nizali da je to stvorilo sliku koja me još uvijek drži. Ljepota nekih slučajnih trgova, nekih ljudi u prolazu, iznenadna procesija s limenim orkestrom ispod prozora, spontani razgovori u koje smo ulazili, knjižare sa starim prijevodima klasika, mračne uličice koje ti više ne izgledaju toliko opasno kad par puta njima prođeš, dobra šala konobara, utakmica iz tranzistora u nekoj stražnjoj ulici, nadglasavanje prodavača na tržnici, rijeka ljudi u večernjoj šetnji, slučajno mjesto s kojeg odjednom shvatiš da si okružen morem i planinama... Sve to zajedno uglavnom i one druge tipične stvari kao granite, aranccioni, canoli, kava, pizza.

Bilo je puno prilika za pričati talijanski i jednom sam čak dobio kompliment da jako dobro pričam. I bilo mi je odlično ponovno ga čuti i pričati, jedino što se nije desilo ono čemu sam se potajno nadao - da ću nakon povratka ponovno dobiti volju čitati ga i slušati. Kao da trenutno nema dovoljno mjesta za tu želju - francuski me je ipak trenutno previše okupirao.
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:20 pm

Translation (HR-->FR):
(It's the first time I'm doing this kind of translation. Corrections and feedback are welcome!)


J’ai déjà écrit sur mes rapports avec les langues. Or mes rapports avec les villes sont presque les mêmes – comme avec les personnes.
Je ne suis pas parvenu à aimer ni Amsterdam, ni Luxembourg ni Anvers. Gênes, Metz et Bologne m’ont plu aussitôt (à chacune d’elles je suis retourné plusieurs fois). Avec le temps j’ai commencé à aimer Parme, elle me manque même aujourd’hui. Au premier regard j’ai eu un coup de foudre pour Zagreb, il me serait difficile de ne la voir jamais plus. Après plusieurs visites, j’ai réussi à trouver les points positifs même à Milan et à Venise, alors que d’abord je les ai détestées. Pour une certaine raison, je retourne souvent à Francfort, une ville assez moche d’ailleurs. Pour une certaine raison, je ne retourne pas à Londres ou à Berlin, même si je les trouvais super. Pour une certaine raison, je retourne souvent à Paris ou j’ai passé deux mois de ma vie. J’adore Rovigno. Je rentrerais volontiers à Belgrade ou à Lille, mais pas à Oslo ou à Rotterdam. Etc.

J’écris tous cela parce que la semaine dernière je suis tombe amoureux de Palerme. Ces quatre jours me semblent encore comme un vague rêve. Il m’est même difficile de définir ce qui m’a plu concrètement, vu que de l’architecture sublime il y’en a aussi dans les autres villes, l’ambiance du sud j’ai déjà vécu à Athènes et à Rome, du chaos nocturne j’en ai déjà vu à Sophia ou à Tirana, partout il y en a quelque chose d’intéressant. Mais là, il y avait peut-être une combinaison de détails qui ce sont succédés si vite que tout cela a soudain créé une image qui me tient encore. La beauté de certaines places aléatoires, de certains passants, une procession soudaine suivie d’un orchestre de cuivres sous la fenêtre, les discussions spontanées auxquelles nous nous joignions, les librairies avec des vielles traductions de classiques, les ruelles sombres qui ne paraissaient si dangereuses apres qu’on y est passés quelques fois, une bonne blague d’un serveur, le match diffusé d’un transistor dans une rue arrière, les voix hautes des commerçants au marché, des fleuves de gens en promenade du soir, un endroit fortuit auquel on se rend compte que la ville est entourée de la mer et des montagnes… En somme, tous cela ensemble avec d'autres choses typiques comme les granites, les aranccioni, les canoli, le café, la pizza.

Il y avait bien d’occasions de parler l’italien. Une fois on m’a même fait un compliment que je le parle très bien. C’était excellent de l’entendre et de le parler de nouveau, sauf que: il ne s’est pas passé ce que j’avais secrètement espéré – de retrouver, après mon retour, l’envie de le lire et de l’écouter. Comme s'il n’y en avait pas assez de place pour ce vœu – pour instant le français me prend beaucoup trop de temps.
Last edited by Robierre on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Robierre wrote:-there are other two smaller English speaking countries in this region: Liberia and Sierra Leone


There is another smaller very small English speaking country in West Africa, (The) Gambia. You could easily miss it on map of West Africa, as the narrow strip of a country, that it is, could be mistaken for a wide river, bay or inlet, or the shape of the coastline. However look a little closer and voilà.

Although anglophone, it is surrounded by Senegal to the north, east and south, and with other francophone countries in the vicinity (Guiné-Bissau is lusophone), knowledge of French is apparently widespread.

Edit: In terms of French and English in that part of the world, Cameroun/Cameroon (which I don’t believe is counted as part of West Africa) on Nigeria’s south-eastern border, where, incidently, 242 languages are said to be spoken, French is spoken by 80% of the population and English 20%. Bilingualism is encouraged by the government.
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:40 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
There is another smaller very small English speaking country in West Africa, (The) Gambia. You could easily miss it on map of West Africa, as the narrow strip of a country, that it is, could be mistaken for a wide river, bay or inlet, or the shape of the coastline. However look a little closer and voilà.


Good remark! It must be the smallest African country!

One more thing, I'm mixing the Guineas and the Guyanas.

There are four Guineas (three in Africa, one in Oceania):
-Guinea (formerly known as French Guinea/Guinée française)
-Equatorial Guinea (formerly the colony of Spanish Guinea)
-Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colony)
-Papua New Guinea (Oceanian country)

There are two Guyanas:
-Guyana (the only South American nation in which English is the official language)
-French Guiana (overseas department of France, also in South America)
-plus: Suriname (formerly Dutch Guiana, South America)
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:21 am

Robierre wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
There is another smaller very small English speaking country in West Africa, (The) Gambia. You could easily miss it on map of West Africa, as the narrow strip of a country, that it is, could be mistaken for a wide river, bay or inlet, or the shape of the coastline. However look a little closer and voilà.


Good remark! It must be the smallest African country!

One more thing, I'm mixing the Guineas and the Guyanas.

There are four Guineas (three in Africa, one in Oceania):
-Guinea (formerly known as French Guinea/Guinée française)
-Equatorial Guinea (formerly the colony of Spanish Guinea)
-Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colony)
-Papua New Guinea (Oceanian country)

There are two Guyanas:
-Guyana (the only South American nation in which English is the official language)
-French Guiana (overseas department of France, also in South America)
-plus: Suriname (formerly Dutch Guiana, South America)


And there were two more 'Guyanas' in the past:
Spanish Guyana (south-eastern part of Venezuela) and Brazilian Guyana just east of French Guyana
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyanes

Equitorial Guinea is rather interesting in terms of European languages, as it's the only African country with Spanish as it's official language. 87% of the population are apparently proficient in the language. French was introduced in 1997 as the second official language. It's a compulsory school subject, but with poor access to education on 10% of children learn it. Portuguese was added as the third official language in 2011, but access to CPLC (Lusophone Commonwealth/ Community of Portuguese Language Countries) was denied on the grounds of insufficient in-roads made for the spreading/teaching of Portuguese in the country. In 2014 it officially joined. 10,000 people there apparently speak a Portuguese based creole. At the very least it's perhaps the only Spanish/French bilingual(ish) country in the world I'd imagine. Swap the stats around to 87% French, a bit of Spanish, improve their quality of life index, and I just might live there! Conversely, I could move to the French Pyrenees, buy some land, declare it an independent country and stipulate the languages spoken and their percentages. A trilingual French, Spanish, Dutch country? Why not!

Sorry for taking over your log a tad... it's interesting stuff!
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Robierre
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Re: Robierre’s French C2 log

Postby Robierre » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:39 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Equitorial Guinea is rather interesting in terms of European languages, as it's the only African country with Spanish as it's official language.
[...]

At the very least it's perhaps the only Spanish/French bilingual(ish) country in the world I'd imagine.


Theoretically, there is another African country with Spanish as it's official language - Western Sahara. However, it is currently under Moroccan control.

As for the Spanish/French combination, I always thought that Andorra is Spanish-French bilingual. Apparently, Catalan is the only official language there. Moreover, it is the only country in which Catalan is the sole official language. I visited once Andorra long time ago and I still remember the fact that the country is governed by two princes: the president of France and a Spanish bishop. But it seams that French is spoken only by 5% of African immigrants.

Are you learning also Spanish? :mrgreen: The French Pyrenees sound great, just add Basque instead of Spanish. Thank you for your comments - my log desperately needs more interaction. :mrgreen:
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