Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3240
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8066

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:13 am

rdearman wrote:
Xmmm wrote:**I'm sure everyone has heard of the recent UK "pick the best group and they play at Christmas on BBC radio live" contest sponsored by Simon Cowell to push his flavor of the month clone band. And how some people rebelled and started a viral campaign to select "Killing in the Name Of" by Rage Against the Machine (1992) because it ends with a rather profane and defiant chorus. And it won. And they had to play it on the radio. And the BBC radio people said to the band "You promise not to use the obscene version, because it's radio, you know" and the band "sure, we promise." But of course the band is named Rage Against the Machine and Simon Cowell and BBC are part of the Machine so .... they had to cut the band off.

Sorry to derail your log PM, but I had to laugh because I voted for Rage against the machine, and from then on in the month of December I'm like: Let's listen to some Christmas number ones. bwahhhahahhahaa. (BTW, My wife is really, really tired of this joke)


I would’ve voted for them too! I was a fan (and still am), and of one their biggest influences as well- Midnight Oil, who I finally saw live late last year (and consequently am still, literally, experiencing ringing in my left ear. I can’t see myself going to any concerts in the near future, but it was good!).
1 x

User avatar
MamaPata
Brown Belt
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (C1*), Russian (B1), Spanish (B1).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1807

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby MamaPata » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:10 am

Xmmm wrote:
Cavesa wrote:No offence meant, but I don't think you have a clue.

...

Yes, there are clear risks of the technologies and problems, but I wouldn't trade them for the hopeless ignorant world before.


I'll take the world that created Elvis, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Van Morrison, the Clash, the Police, Midnight Oil, the Divinyls (throwing in a couple Australian groups for PM), Adam Ant, Big Country, and the Cranberries over the world that created Maroon 5, One Direction, and Bruno Mars any day.

Do you know why there was so much great British and American music in the hopeless, clueless world of the past but not now? Technology.

The music industry now has Big Data, and the algorithms tell them the smart money is on making new songs that are slight tweaks of what is already popular, rather than doing something crazy.

This is just one -- one -- example of how technology has damaged a core part of what it means to be human (having decent music to listen to). I love English-language music of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s but I am also heartily sick of it because I've been waiting almost 30 years to hear something new. Whenever I stop at a gas station, it's Led Zeppelin or U2 or Duran Duran or Madonna all over again. When I hear it, sometimes I feel like I'm going to start screaming and not be able to stop.

But the only place I can hear something new is in Russia (Аигел), where evidently the music business is not as technologically advanced.

I disagree with PM on a lot of details, but his overall feeling of paranoia is spot-on as far as I'm considered and I happily consider myself to be his comrade marching under the "clueless" banner.


There was also a lot of terrible contemporary music. I should know - I'm a big fan of lots of it. I don't see you as someone who likes Lulu...
1 x
Corrections appreciated.

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3240
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8066

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:06 pm

I keep trying to stay away from the forum (because I waste too much time here), and I keep coming back (and wasting more time here). Of course, the forum is awesome (without the help and motivation I’ve gained here, I doubt my French would be where it is today, technology hey :? I can’t deny it). I’m not attempting to blame outside factors (the forum) for wasting my time (yep, it’s me, 100%). Still, every time I’m away lately, my study numbers improve a good deal, so best to keep my eyes on the ball/prize/target.

So, I feel I need to stay away for a while, as it does me good. I’ve all the tools, help, assistance and encouragement needed to succeed stored within me (corny?), and I’ve little to offer here for other members that can’t said better by someone else, so my log’s going to come to a driving halt (oxymoron?), until something dramatically relevent deems mandatory reporting (oooh PM, that’s a little 1984 isn’t it, do you have yourself under surveillance?).

Peace out,
Much love,
happy language studies,
SAY NO TO WANDERLUST! (and drugs),
MC Master Dog Turd (a.k.a. MCMDT)
3 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3240
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8066

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Hold on to your seats people.... the idiot is back...

French exam prep
I've really wasted a lot of time over stretches of multiple days here and there. Still I'm going to sit the exam as planned. I have started working with a couple of exam preparation books: Production écrite (Niveaux C1 / C2) and Réussir le Dalf (Niveaux C1 et C2). I'm studying in 45 minute rotations. Exam materials are the focus for every second block of 45 minutes study.

I took heed of Cavesa's numerous 'warnings', that at the C-levels, one must be very prepared for the exam format. These books are scaring me! Okay, my language capabilities might be in the close vicinity of C1... that's 'might', but the exam format from what i've touched on so far, as I've only used these materials a few times now, is a little daunting. My first study sessions with these books, saw me ready to throw in the towel and wanting to delay the exam yet again. I decided that was silly, I ought to proceed as planned, become as familiar as I can with the exams in the little time I have and do the bloody thing and see where I end up.

An Australian employee of the Alliance Française also told me, without me mentioning of the exam format, that the most important thing at this level is being familiar with the exam format. Hence the focus on these books now. I also bought a third book in digital format, which I plan to use closer to the exam. It's called DALF C1 Tests complets corrigés. While the first two books build one's skills before launching you into tougher, exam-simulated content, it seems that this book is, as it's title suggests, a collection of complete C1 exams. Thus, best left to later on, after the other two books have enabled me to feel more ready to tackle entire past exams.

Change of country next year
As briefly touched on here and there somewhere buried in my log or another part of this forum, moving to Saudi Arabia is now not a possibility but the definitive plan. It's 99% likely. Riyadh is where the whole family will be relocating to for at least 12 months, beginning roughly mid January, but could be a tad later.

It's my wife who will be working full time. I will not be working, which could hurt my chances of nursing in Europe. We have an ongoing joke among ourselves, my wife and I, in our attempts to relocate and nurse in Europe (even if temporary), that is, she has the qualifications (she's done much more further study than I have), while I have the required language skills. So, due to her having highly sought after qualifications, she'll be working. We didn't pursue (for long) the possibility of myself working, as time with family is important. Here in Australia we rarely get whole days off together as a family, and it's not been great, and that's been just to stay afloat, btw, not to get ahead. Financially, trying to make it to Europe has become more and more of a seemingly impossible goal. A stint in Saudi won't make it a complete reality, but will likely bring back to the realms of possible.

On that note, France is increasingly becoming a place that turns me off. I find myself despising their political system, the decisions made regarding taxation, health, budgets and other European-level decisions that don't appear to give two hoots about the citizens that make up this beautiful country. I am starting to let go of the idea of living there to a certain extent and turning more towards alternatives such as Switzerland, Luxembourg and Norway. In this endless pursuit I also need to be careful to not pull my family into a black hole. This is about me originally, and my interest in European languages and cultures. For them, it's more about gaining exposure to other cultures and learning at least one foreign language via me and being potentially introduced to others along the way. I may need to let go of the idea of living in Europe (or I may not), and may need to accept visiting for lengthy periods or something. Let's face it, I can earn much more here in Australia than in France, were I to ever nurse there. And we can't even save here. Hence the choice to go to Saudi. Switzerland, Norway and Luxembourg seem much more likely to provide a sustainable lifestyle of limited income. Even if that means crossing the border daily.

I've slowly started the process of having my qualifications assessed for Europe. I have my doubts this will work out to my advantage, as if we end up in Saudi for 2 years or more, this could hurt my chances of gaining work in Europe anyway. Not to mention, the Belgian 'authorities' have already stated my qualifications do not match up to anything existing within the Belgian system currently, thus more complicated steps are required. I hate red-tape! It was very disappointing to receive this response, but I kind of already knew it anyway. I've even been considering Ireland, simply to get in the EU door, then Belgian will likely streamline the process, as would Switzerland (perhaps). It's such a convoluted ridiculous process that could potential cost far too much money, that I struggle with even approaching the idea of going down this path. I could even meet insurmountable road blocks from what I've read on various forums of people trying to do something similar over the years. Why I ask, is it so insanely difficult (i.e. lengthy and potentially very expensive) to become a nurse in Switzerland when they are absolutely crying out for them and have had an ongoing shortage for years and years? Aside from Ireland as a workaround, the is the other possibility of finding an agency somewhere in Europe that will do the hard work for me. I don't mind what field I'd be nursing in, provided I get in the door and open up opportunities.

Language ideas for the coming couple of years
Due to the relocation now being a definite thing, of course the idea of studying Arabic has been pondered now many a time. As has which other languages I might study. I decided at one point I'd study six languages at once, half an hour each per day. Then it changed to an hour a day of the most relevant languages, which I decided were continuing French, introducing Arabic and my next language I'm most keen to learn, Dutch. That evolved to... pfft I give up. It evolved a lot. Multiple times a day, in fact. It occupied far too much of my headspace, really. My latest idea includes these three languages only.

Norwegian
French
Dutch

Why? Who cares? Well, anyway, here's why-

French, I decided must continue, because I think I have yet again concluded that taking my first FL to a lofty advanced level (read C2) is going to be invaluable to my subsequent language choices. It's also the second language in our family and will be more prominent than English in the family next year due to me not working and being with the children practically all day every day. As the children mature, the language skills I will need to interact with them need to expand. Reaching C2 (i.e. learning more French solidly for another ~18 months), will not do me any harm with all that in mind. Post C1 (fingers crossed I pass), I will increase my focus on reading and watching/listening and decrease my focus on intensive work with courses. It will likely remain in some capacity, but the idea will be full steam ahead with the Super Challenge with some intensive study time on the side.

Norwegian kinda shouldn't theoretically be that important, but it's relevant nonetheless. My daughter (I planted the seed) keeps telling me when I reel off all the languages that interest me, that she wants to learn Norwegian. Thus, I have decided to honour this and help her learn some, which means I need to learn it too. Last night, while not studying French, nor going to bed when I should have, I compiled a list of links to either discussions on Norwegian resources on this forum or HTLAL or links to actual resources. I plan on studying 30 minutes formally a day, then reading a little in the language outside my formal study time with children's books to the children.

Dutch
Still on hold for a little while yet. I will introduce it post French C2 exam (likely early 2020). In the end despite this language being small, despite Spanish, German, Arabic and more time with a new language that is Norwegian vying for attention, Dutch wins purely and simply because that is what I'm most keen/interested in studying. We all know that this matters most in language learning, that is, being interested in the language. It's an essential element in language learning. Given my C2 aspirations in French however and my tiny in-roads allowed for Norwegian, I don't won't to let go of any more French time for another language just yet. Dutch will have to wait a bit yet, but when I start, ideally thinking here, French will then take a back seat and hopefully maintain itself as a language of functional use and entertainment. Dutch will then occupy most of my formal study time.

Arabic
Despite it's increasing importance, my end decision is not to study this language (much). I may dabble, my wife is happy to teach the kids a few words, once she has learned some (or learn them together). I'm happy to partake in this scratching of the surface activity, but not willing (at this stage) to take this language seriously. Despite looking in local libraries here for materials and compiling a short list, I decided to drop the idea of learning it because of two main reasons. First, my track record has shown that I take ten times as long as the FSI calculations on time to reach certain levels in a given language. Were I to attempt to reach B2 or beyond in this language, I may either never ever have time to take up other languages or it will be something I'm continuously battling with for decades. Secondly, it's never interested me, why force it? I believe this could change, but I'm not going to push myself to learn something well if all the while I'm regretting doing so and dreaming of learning other languages.

So, I'm likely to be the typical westerner in SA who really knows very little of the local language. I don't like this, it goes against a lot of my views, but I need to be realistic. If science suddenly declares all people will now be able to live to 500 years of age, then I'll change my mind, otherwise I just can't see me realistically fitting this language into my schedule, particularly when I don't want to.

German and Spanish remain important big languages. German would help for employment in certain countries of interest to me- Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg. Although, with Belgium German would be of limited use, and in Switzerland, well, Swiss German is not High German. Spanish is a language that purely interests me like Dutch. Mind you so does German, but it's shine has become a little dull over the years. Spanish is still alluring, but it's immediate usefulness for my working future seems low.

Back to exam prep....
11 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2363
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14263

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby iguanamon » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:17 pm

I'm happy to see you back, PM and, you are not an idiot. I'm also happy to see that you will be studying the exam format thoroughly between now and the exam date. That's a great idea. Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck and success... in the exam and in your upcoming move. :)
3 x

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4878

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby smallwhite » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:12 am

Rather than how you fare learning French, I'm now more interested in how you will fare not learning Arabic living in Saudi Arabia.
3 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

User avatar
Adrianslont
Blue Belt
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:39 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), Learning Indonesian and French
x 1936

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:34 am

Are you really going to be able to make more on one Saudi wage than on two Australian wages? If not, you will be going backwards financially.

I am only sticking my nose in your financial affairs because you raise them and I am Australian and I know nurses get paid reasonably well here. And two minutes google tells me that one Saudi wage doesn’t equal two Australian ones and may not even equal one, depending on the job, of course. And of course I know nothing of your wife’s job situation, the Saudi tax regime or cost of living. So, though I am obviously much less well informed than you, I still feel compelled to ask the above question.

If you can indeed make more money with one Saudi wage than with two Australian wages, it is a good opportunity - providing you like where you are living. I have in the past gone overseas to work myself and done well - but both myself and my wife worked.
2 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3240
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8066

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:09 am

iguanamon wrote:I'm happy to see you back, PM and, you are not an idiot. I'm also happy to see that you will be studying the exam format thoroughly between now and the exam date. That's a great idea. Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck and success... in the exam and in your upcoming move. :)


Hi iguanamon :) Very supportive on your behalf as usual and I very much appreciate it, thank you iguanamon :) I hope all is well with you.

smallwhite wrote:Rather than how you fare learning French, I'm now more interested in how you will fare not learning Arabic living in Saudi Arabia.


According to Wikipedia, 15% of the population speak English. According to some feedback we have received, many shopkeepers are foreign (from India and the Phillipines mainly I hear). Apparently not many Saudis work so interactions with Saudis could be limited. How true these statements and Wikipedia are, I don’t know. We will be living in a compound in which other westerners live. Therefore, it might be quite easy to exist in a western bubble it seems.

I don’t like my attitude here, but I’m reluctant to take Arabic seriously. I think the script is interesting and I see it as being both highly useful and opening up wonders of discovery. However, I’m afraid of the serious time sink I could fall into. I have been such a perfectionist with French, if this transferred to Arabic, other European languages might not see the light of day for ten years. That’s not a stretch given I’m soon entering my sixth year of a category one language. Half an hour a day you might say? Seriously, that could be just wasting time, as this language likely needs a much larger time commitment to progress even at a slowish rate.

Adrianslont wrote:Are you really going to be able to make more on one Saudi wage than on two Australian wages? If not, you will be going backwards financially.

I am only sticking my nose in your financial affairs because you raise them and I am Australian and I know nurses get paid reasonably well here. And two minutes google tells me that one Saudi wage doesn’t equal two Australian ones and may not even equal one, depending on the job, of course. And of course I know nothing of your wife’s job situation, the Saudi tax regime or cost of living. So, though I am obviously much less well informed than you, I still feel compelled to ask the above question.

If you can indeed make more money with one Saudi wage than with two Australian wages, it is a good opportunity - providing you like where you are living. I have in the past gone overseas to work myself and done well - but both myself and my wife worked.


Edited:

Details removed, as uncomfortable with my details of finances, although vague, included in my log. In short- yes, we will be better off in Saudi financially as we currently work less than two full-time wages in Australia due to our values which we do not want to compromise on.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
3 x

User avatar
Adrianslont
Blue Belt
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:39 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), Learning Indonesian and French
x 1936

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:36 am

Okay, now that I know you don’t work two full time jobs in Australia it’s making financial sense.

And I’d guessed housing and utilities would be subsidised in Saudi.

I totally understand the idea of working six or seven days between you in Australia - I’ve been there and done that when children were younger. And apart from family values, we would have basically been working one job for nothing after the high cost of putting two children in childcare. It just didn’t make financial sense so I worked regular hours and my wife worked a few hours in the evening and from home - total about 7 days between us.

But what about education costs for the children? That can be a big cost for expat families - is that sorted?

Edited: at Peter’s request, removed my quote from his above post
Last edited by Adrianslont on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
1 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3240
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8066

Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:45 am

Adrianslont wrote:Okay, now that I know you don’t work two full time jobs in Australia it’s making financial sense.

And I’d guessed housing and utilities would be subsidised in Saudi.

I totally understand the idea of working six or seven days between you in Australia - I’ve been there and done that when children were younger. And apart from family values, we would have basically been working one job for nothing after the high cost of putting two children in childcare. It just didn’t make financial sense so I worked regular hours and my wife worked a few hours in the evening and from home - total about 7 days between us.

But what about education costs for the children? That can be a big cost for expat families - is that sorted?


Yes, childcare is expensive. Sounds like you do know where we’re coming from given your experience.

Education is subsidised. However we have been intending on homeschooling anyway.

Edited by PM: Details removed for reasons of privacy
2 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: terracotta and 2 guests