¡No Manches! - Uses "learning Spanish" as a cover so he can watch telenovelas all day and not feel guilty

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NoManches
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:29 pm

iguanamon wrote:
NoManches wrote:...I believe @iguanamon once recommended a radio show from Cuba...I'll have to find that show and give it a listen. ...

The following link, Tres Patines y La Tremenda Corte, should tell you everything you need to know about the old radio show. Believe it or not, even after almost 70 years since it aired, it is still broadcast on the radio. I hear it on a station out of Puerto Rico, WPAB, everyday at around lunchtime. Though it dates from pre-Revolutionary Cuba, the humor is timeless. If you can manage to understand Tres Patines' speech, you can probably understand almost anyone in Spanish :lol: . Much of the humor involes TP mangling Spanish and Sr Juez having to explain things to him. I don't know if the links to the radio show are still active. (I downloaded the whole show several years ago.) At least three of the episodes come with transcripts- but you'll have to dig through the site to find the links.

The show was moved from Cuba to Mexico and Mexican TV after the Cuban Revolution, but they just couldn't capture the magic again on television.

It's good to see that you are branching out from Mexican Spanish. It's really just a matter of exposure to get used to listening to other varieties of Spanish. Slang and accents vary widely, but Spanish is still Spanish... even in Cuba. :)

Edit: You can download the scripts to three episodes: Adivinicidio; Lamparicidio; Teartricidio on the link I provided, just look for the text icon. All the episodes are standalone so you don't have to worry about listening in any order. The radio episodes are 10-15 minutes long. There's also a link to a Cuban vocabulary glossary on the site.


Thanks! I'll have to add it to me list of things to listen to. I like the fact that the episodes are standalone, that will make things less troublesome if I don't catch everything in an episode
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:35 pm

Just started a new show on Netflic called : Enemigo Intimo

I'm hooked! It stars Fernanda Castillo and Raúl Méndez. I'm a huge fan of both ever since I watched El Señor de los Cielos. What I like about this show is that it is narco themed (aren't they all?)...but this show portrays the police as the good guys and the narcos as the bad guys. It feels good to be able to root for the good guys for once.

I just started to read Dos crímenes por Jorge Ibargüengoitia. I am still trying to figure out how to pronounce his name. I'm one chapter in and hooked. This is an awesome book, although I find myself looking up more words than I'd like. It's short (211 pages), so I hope to finish it soon and maybe move on to another one of his books.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 pm

Let's see:

The last week has been productive, but it doesn't feel like it for some odd reason. When I look back at everything I've done since my last post, it looks pretty bad. I have only had two days where I met my goal of reading for one hour each day. I normally spend a lot of time reading random articles in Spanish to fill in gaps during my day, but that has not been the case lately. I have only watched 12 episodes of a tv show, and instead of listening to podcasts at work I have been listening to Spanish music. Work has been very busy lately but in the end I have been a bit lazy. It's easier to take shortcuts sometimes and its looks like that's what I've been doing.

However, I have been making improvements in other areas:

I have been working on lessons in my DELE B2 workbook. I find them occasionally challenging but very helpful at the same time. After a while you get a feel of what you should be looking for when you read. I think it's forcing me to read for more than the gist. I nee to pick up the pace with this book and get started with the C1 book. I have noticed that there is a lot of vocabulary in this book that I can understand through context, but they are words that are still a little blurry and I would like for them to be part of my active vocabulary. I think doing more writing (with corrections), while using those words would help me remember them better.

I have been working through a few Spanish grammar books. Specifically, I have been focusing on the subjunctive. I've had a few frustrating moments because I know the subjunctive....I really do...but there are times when I fail to use it. When I'm hitting the grammar book I'm fine with the subjunctive, but in conversation, I probably use it only 75% of the time when I should. I remember in college when I was doing a lot of writing I was able to use it with no problem and that would always carry over to my speech. Just like my comment about learning vocabulary, I think I need to do more writing in Spanish and work on using grammar and lot of different forms of the subjunctive.

As far as my reading goes, it hasn't been much. I'm still working on Dos Crimines and it is a really great book. I think I mentioned this before, but I heard the book mentioned in a podcast and decided to check it out. Apparently Octavio Paz said this book was "La novela perfecta". I am also working on "Tiroteo" by Raul Garbantes. I just finished a book bundle by Paco Ardit.

I'm on episode 12 of Enemigo Intimo. This is an awesome show and I'm really hooked. It is primarily Mexican Spanish with some prison slang. I don't know if I'll have time to "binge watch" the show, so I'll take it slow and get the most out of every episode.

As far as listening to podcasts, for some reason I took a slight break in exchange for some music in Spanish. I really don't know why. I usually save music in Spanish to when I'm running errands in town or maybe preparing dinner. I try to listen to as many podcasts as I can. Maybe I grew tired of passively listening and decided I wanted something more entertaining?? I do a lot of passive listening to podcasts and I think this is a bad thing: It makes me believe that I'm listening to a lot of Spanish when really I'm doing a lot of hearing, not listening. Yes, there is a difference.

I've been trying to get 2 or 3 skype lessons in each week. I've also been seeking out some language exchange partners. It's just a matter of finding somebody who wants to talk on a regular basis or on a set schedule. I like the idea of having a few consistent friends to practice with instead of people who want to chat once or twice and then be gone.


I really love this forum and all of the members we have here. I get a lot of good advice and a lot of motivation. I always think it's so cool when I talk to somebody or read a post on here (in English) and realize after that the other person isn't a native speaker of English. For me, that is so motivating to see that yes, it can be done. I want to be like that one day with my Spanish. Well, with this being said, I have found it very useful to log out of the forum to avoid distractions. Every time I come to this site, I make it so I have to log back in. This forces me to stop and think: "Do I really need to check the forum right now? Could I be doing something in Spanish instead? Should I be doing something in Spanish?" Whenever this happens, I force myself to read something in Spanish before I log in, usually a short article. This forum is like a treat for me....if I read something in Spanish I can log in...but only briefly. Also, I try to access the forum only by my computer, not my phone. Doing both of these things has forced me to read more articles in Spanish, devote more time to doing other things in Spanish, and it has allowed me to take a closer look at distracting activities that I partake in (logging off Facebook has allowed my productivity to skyrocket).

I will leave you with a song from my favorite band in Spanish: Zoé

I love their MTV unplugged album and this song has been stuck in my head for days:

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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:35 pm

I feel like this is a continuation of last weeks post...I've been productive when I look at everything I've done...but I don't feel like I've been productive. Maybe I just haven't been as productive/consistent as I normally am...

Looking back at a few posts I made in 2016 (one of which was pointed out to me by @smallwhite) and I can see how long I've been trying to get from B2 to C1. I knew it would take a long time and I never expected results overnight. Fortunately for me, I've had a lot of fun over the years while learning Spanish, so other than taking classes in college, it has never felt like a never ending, hopeless endeavor. There are days when I feel like I'm not making any improvements, but when I look back at posts I made in 2016 and compare them with my current level, I know I'm getting better, little by little.

I continue to read almost every day. Work has been busy and I've learned to accept that there are some days when I won't be able to read for an hour (or even 20 minutes). Sometimes I come home and I am so tired that even if I have 2 hours to read, it's not really worth it because I won't retain anything. Usually on those days I watch a TV show which is a lot easier to do...which brings me to another topic....

I passively listen to podcasts almost every day at work, but actively listening to them makes up a small amount of my listening practice. I rely almost exclusively on TV for my listening practice....which isn't a very efficient method compared to podcasts. Watching TV is so much easier than listening to podcasts. Yes, sometimes TV can be tough, but it is filled with so many visual clues that I think it is possible to watch some shows in your TL and understand what is happening (visually) while not understanding everything that is actually said. I've noticed this on days when I'm really tired....I will watch a show and think I understand it even though I'm half asleep and only catching the visual clues. Of course on days when I'm not tired and force myself to focus I listen and understand a lot...so I need to be careful when it comes to using TV to improve my listening skills.

I think I need to make podcasts an even bigger part of my daily life...I need to spend more time actively listening to them instead of passively listening at work. Just a thought...

I've been working through my grammar books and strengthening certain things which have been holding me back. It's hard to see improvements at a B2 level but when I work on perfecting certain grammar points it is rewarding because I can see those improvements almost instantly.

I have been having about 3.5 hours worth of Skype practice each week (only counting time spent in Spanish). I have a tutor who really pushes me to talk about advanced things. He knows all of my weaknesses and forces me to work on them. At the end of almost all of our conversations I say to myself "wow, you really sucked today", but I know this isn't really the case. When I talk to some of my language partners I have almost effortless, mistake free conversations. The difference is one person is exposing my weaknesses and forcing me to work on them. The other times I am simply using and enjoying the language. I think this balance keeps me going each week....it lets me see my mistakes while not allowing to beat myself up too much....

Plans for the upcoming week include lots of skype practice, lots of reading, and a heavy focus on podcasts over TV shows.

BUT.....season 2 of Ingobernable is coming out soon so I will have to watch the first season over again so I can really enjoy the second season. The first temporada was EXCELLENT and I felt it was really, really, easy to watch and understand. I highly recommend this series to anybody looking to improve their Spanish.

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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:55 pm

Since my last log:

I have not been doing a lot of reading.

I have not been watching a lot of TV in Spanish (I'm only on episode 19 of "Enemigo Intimo").

I have been doing a crap ton of listening to podcasts. And yes, a "crap ton" is a unit of reference that I like to use.

While I do feel guilty for not doing a lot of reading lately, I can't be upset that I've replaced reading time with "listening time". And although I like to watch TV in Spanish, it just seems like podcasts are a more efficient way of improving your listening skills. TV shows are great, but a 30 minute show might contain 8 minutes with no speech because of all the music, cutting to different scenes, etc. Also, it is possible to watch a show and not understand much of it but get by fine because of visual clues. With podcasts, this is not the case.

The only problems I have found with podcasts:

-some of the really interesting ones have bad audio, meaning I can barely hear them when I am driving (which is when I do most of my listening)

-I still have the problem of zoning out. Fortunately I am able to catch myself and can tune back in. With really interesting podcasts this rarely happens. I have found that sitting and listening can be difficult, but listening while driving/walking/cleaning/etc. can be more efficient. I used to be obsessed with understanding every podcasts I listened to, especially the really good ones. I would listen repeatedly, looks up unknown words and phrases, and would become discouraged if I couldn't understand everything. I'm at a point now where I've just said "to hell with it". I'll give it a listen or two, and then I'll move on. I think quantity over quality might be important right now.

I'll try to be more consistent with my reading but if my brain feels fine with binge listening to podcasts, then I won't resist. I remember a period in college when all I did was listen, my headphones were in whenever possible and I listened to podcast after podcast...and was not satisfied with the results. Now that my Spanish listening skills are a lot stronger, I think I will benefit more from binge listening to podcasts. We shall see.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Season 2 of Ingobernable is incredible! Just watched 3 episodes and I want to finish the entire season in one sitting. I do forget a few things that happened in Temporada 1 which is kind of annoying....I might have to go back and rewatch it. I don't want to spoil the show but there was a brief connection with La Reina del Sur which made me super happy.

I just finished La Reina del Sur not too long ago, and I've been listening to Kate del Castillos podcast daily, so my comprehension for things Kate del Castillo have skyrocketed.

I think I'll try to finish Dueños del Paraíso before the second season of La Reina del Sur comes out.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:03 am

Work has been relentless! At least I get to listen to podcasts most of the time while working.

I've pretty much neglected my reading habits during the last few weeks and replaced reading time with listening to podcasts. I know that a balance of reading and listening is best, but something is urging me to do more listening. Maybe it is because I have found some pretty interesting podcasts to listen to. I still struggle with poor audio quality podcasts. If the audio is loud and clear, the only problem I have is my wandering mind, my comprehension for these shows is pretty high nowadays. If the audio isn't that clear (such as a show where people call in with poor phone reception), then I will usually have problems hearing everything. I do most of my podcast listening while driving, so the outside noises on the road probably don't help. I try to listen to the good audio stuff while driving and save the bad stuff for when I can use my headphones.

*******************************************************************
I did do a little experiment today where I listened to a podcast in English. I noticed two things in particular: (1) my mind hardly wandered at all and (2) even with the poor quality portions I was able to understand everything.

I think with English my comprehension is so good that I can multitask a lot better while listening to something. With Spanish it's almost like I have to be dedicated to listening if I want to comprehend everything. If I was in a business meeting in English and started to daydream, and then was called on for an answer, I feel like I could regurgitate something that I heard and make it sound like I was at least paying attention. In Spanish, unless I was giving 100% of my attention, I would not be able to do this. I think the ability to hear poor audio quality in our native language is easy because we have the ability to fill in the gaps. I still lack this ability in Spanish. I can't wait for the day (I hope there is a day) when I am able to do it with little effort.

*******************************************************************


I've continued to meet online with my tutor(s) and language exchange partner. I miss living so close to Mexico where it was almost impossible to walk down the street without hearing Spanish. Oh well. At least I have my podcasts.

I'm on episode 33 of Enemigo Intimo. I love this show and wish I had more time to watch it. I am going to wait until I finish this show before I continue with Ingobernable. That show (Ingobernable) is too good to not binge watch and I want to be 100% focused when I'm watching it. I will most likely go back and watch the first temporada just to remind myself of some things that happened....I think I mentioned this before. My listening comprehension for TV shows has skyrocketed. I did buy a soundbar which helps a lot. I think something to do with where the sound is directed makes watching foreign language TV a lot easier.

I haven't had the time or energy to write in Spanish, study grammar, or work with my DELE preparation book. I know that doing those things will help my Spanish, but forcing myself to do them when I don't need to just sounds like a good way to get sick of things. I'm really into the fact that I love Spanish and don't want it to turn into some dreaded part of my life....so I'll just stick with the things I enjoy doing: listening, talking with real Spanish speakers, and watching tons of TV in Spanish.
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:05 pm

A few weeks I was watching a video by Steve Kaufmann (I forget which video, and I'm not going to attempt to find it right now) , but it had to do with the importance of listening. Steve made a very interesting comment that I've been thinking about a lot lately. He basically said something like this:

The written language has only been around for a relatively short time, whereas the spoken language has been around for thousands of years. He went on to add that listening is so important because it is something we have evolved to do, and he believes that for this reason listening is so important to the language learning process.

I want to clarify that I forget exactly what he said, so I'm probably slipping some of my own thoughts or words into that statement...but you get the picture. I think Steve is right though. Reading is very important but it isn't necessarily the most natural thing for us humans to do. This leads me to something else:

I consider myself to be a good visual learner, but not a good auditory learner. In other words, if I see a new Spanish word written down in context (such as in a book), I am more likely to understand and remember that word. However, if I hear the same word being read in an audiobook (as an example), I feel like I am less likely to remember it, and my ability to understand that word will not always be so great. Another example: I consider myself to have excellent listening comprehension in 1 on 1 conversations, but there are many times (on Skype), where a language partner will use a new word or phrase. Not always, but there are many times when I have to ask them to type it for me. And then if minutes later I want to use the new word I just heard, I'll have to look for it in the chat box because my brain already got rid of it.

I do understand that with the written language, we can take all the time in the world to look up words, re-read sentences, think about grammar structures, look at verb conjugations etc.

But when people say they are better at learning a language from reading rather than listening, it makes me think: is this a trained skill, or is that particular person really just naturally better at visual learning than auditory learning.

Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.

Either way, the above is just me rambling on about some thoughts I've had recently. For Spanish, I've barely read anything in the last few weeks but I have been doing a ton of listening. Lots and lots and lots of podcasts, and lots of Spanish television. Maybe this is an experiment. Can I make it so my ability to learn the language from listening is better than my ability to learn through reading? I think "yes", but we shall see. I think after so many years of reading, writing, and doing grammar exercises in Spanish class with only a small emphasis on speaking and listening has done some harm to me.

I don't think my days now are different than they were a few months ago. I've always spent a lot of time listening to podcasts. It's not something new for me. It's not like I just realized that I need to start doing a lot of listening (I realized this years ago). What I have been doing though, is listening to a lot of the same podcast. I used to bounce around a lot with different podcasts, but why? With TV I like to watch an entire series and then move on to a new one. After about 5 episodes I get used to the speech, accents, vocabulary, etc. of that show, and my comprehension skyrockets. If I bounced from one show to another I think it would take a lot longer to see improvements in listening comprehension...so why would I do that with podcasts? I think now with better listening skills I am able to listen to more shows that interest me, which before were unavailable because they were too difficult. Also, I'm getting better at figuring out what works for me and what doesn't work for me when it comes to language learning. I realize that really interesting shows with bad audio quality just aren't worth it sometimes. Also, shows with really great audio quality that aren't interesting to me aren't always worth it either. I look for high quality, highly interesting material, period.

Lately I've been listening to a lot of podcasts that interest me, and I've been trying to "binge listen" to particular shows. I've noticed huge gains in my listening skills, which has had a snowball effect.


For television: I've noticed that sometimes it can turn into a passive listening event. This is not good. I try to stay really focused and if I become very distracted, I'll try to stop and listen to a podcast. I'm on episode 42 of 53 of Enemigo Intimo. I'm not feeling too good lately so I think I'll take some time off and try to finish the series. I highly recommend this program.

That's all for now. I've done a little reading here and there, but anytime I read, I could be listening to a podcast....so I tend to go for the listening activity over the reading. I'll let this new habit take its course and I'm sure I'll get back into reading pretty soon. I have a Spanish friend who lives and works in the US. He has an incredible command of the English language. When I asked him about his reading habits, he told me he HATES reading, in both Spanish and English. I don't hate reading, I actually enjoy it, but I am envious of his ability to make great progress in a language from just listening (and lots and lots of conversation practice).
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby DaveAgain » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:18 pm

NoManches wrote:Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.
I've listened to a few of the Polyglot Gathering videos recently. Grigory Kazakov said something very similar in his talk.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0&p=116030
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Re: ¡No Manches! - DELE C1 (2019)

Postby NoManches » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:55 pm

DaveAgain wrote:
NoManches wrote:Based on what Steve Kaufmann said, it seems like all humans should be better at learning a language through listening rather than through reading.
I've listened to a few of the Polyglot Gathering videos recently. Grigory Kazakov said something very similar in his talk.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 0&p=116030



Thanks, I'll have to give then a listen later on. Do you happen to know the portion of the videos that references how humans are "wired" to learn languages from listening? I don't have time to watch both 40 minute videos now but would like to at least see that portion.
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