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Neurotip
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby Neurotip » Thu May 31, 2018 8:46 pm

Morgana wrote:“Ow-hoo-wa” whaaaa?

ROTFL

Morgana wrote:trying to stop myself from doing the sj-sound in my head when I’m reading the Icelandic, nor doing the rs-thing either

I think sj in Icelandic is really interesting. It seems to be in free variation between literal 'sj' and a sort of 'sh' sound - from what I can hear, native speakers appear not to notice the difference (I haven't asked one yet!). I've found it happens quite naturally once you get your tongue in the right position for 's' and 'j'... unlike Swedish 'sj' and, heaven help us, the rs-thing (and rt/rd), never managed that. What Swedish 'sj' do you use? I learned a Skåne-style velar fricative with lip-rounding, which I found a lot easier than a more 'standard' Stockholm one.

Also yes I'm sure it is interference - I've often had Ita/Fre/Spa, Ger/Swe and Swe/Ice interfere with each other. One technique I've used when I've been studying two potentially interfering languages at the same time is to try and make sure they go into separate mental boxes, so for example study one for a week and then the other for a week, or do one on the bus and the other at home, or something like that. Or you could just face it head-on and learn them in parallel - sometimes one has to learn 'false friend' pairs of course, but I'd be nervous of doing that in general. I'll be interested to know how this goes for you.

BTW Morgana, if this is you at reduced Icelandic rate, I can reassure you that I'm still in serious danger of watching you cruise past me on a scale of months ;)
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eido
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby eido » Thu May 31, 2018 8:52 pm

I am on Tumblr more these days, and they have an active community of language learners. A lot of them like to call their blogs 'langblrs'. This bit comes from a Swedish langblr, I believe run by a native speaker:

att dra - literally translates to “to pull” but can also be used as “to go” somewhere, particularly by teens

vi tänkte dra till en bar ikväll, ska du med? - we were going to go to a bar tonight, are you coming?

jag har lite bråttom, ska vi dra snart? - i’m in a bit of a hurry, are we leaving soon?

vi kan ses i närheten och dra dit tillsammans? - we can meet nearby and go there together?

Ta-da! Did you know about this? If you didn't, now you do :D
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Neurotip
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby Neurotip » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:06 pm

Morgana wrote:I get all excited about the Swedish sj-sound because it’s maybe my favourite sound in a language ever, specifically the “back” sj-sound (as the Academia Cervena videos describe it), I believe it is the Stockholm version. I found the Academia Cervena videos very good at describing how to make the sound. It’s a fun sound to me and I am rather easily entertained in such ways.

Thank you! What great videos and I've certainly learned something today. Makes me wish I was learning Swedish again ... no must resist ... reminds me that YouTube didn't exist when I learned Swedish (and Google was not on most people's radars either :) )

Morgana wrote:*ahem* You are reading news articles, who are you trying to kid with this modesty :lol: I think I must have given the wrong impression about something somewhere. I certainly don’t feel like I’m cruising anywhere with this language! :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I read Icelandic like a five-year-old rides a bike. Anyway I just meant that you're working way harder than I am and I feel pretty good about my work, ergo don't worry 8-)
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eido
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby eido » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Morgana wrote:Hey eido! Thanks for bringing the langblrs to my attention, it’s been a while since I was on tumblr. I am indeed noticing that dra is a very flexible verb in my reading! How did you end up on a Swedishblr, are you having a bit of Swedish wanderlust? ;)

No, I can't allow myself to have wanderlust until I either stick with Icelandic or something else. I just follow a lot of langblrs, so I come across a lot of resources and information about languages. I thought that might be helpful, but if it wasn't, I apologize. Swedish is a language I have dabbled in before and found pretty, and one I have considered learning recently (i.e. it was on the list along with Icelandic before I picked that language). But there isn't a good online resource like Icelandic Online for it, and I don't know how interested I actually am in it if I'm saying what I just said. So ;)
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Swedish, Icelandic, who knows what else

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:29 pm

Morgana wrote:Låta bli. The best I can gather is that this construction/phrase means the opposite of “let be.” In the Linguaphone course it introduced a phrase kunna inte låta bli att, which they said meant something like “can’t help but” but låta bli has not been used the same. The best answer I could find online was here, which translates it as stop/desist/refrain/omit/etc. That translation seems to make sense for the contexts I’ve seen låta bli in.


This is correct. Låta bli - refrain/stop etc. and "kan inte låta bli att" - "can't help but"

"Ligga till" is a particle verb and another way of saying "to be", describing the nature of something (especially abstract topics). "..hur det verkligen ligger till" = lit. "how it really is", "what it's really like".

"Hjälpa till" is another particle verb (I'm thinking of the English help vs. help out).

Sometimes "till" is added to verbs when you want to show an action or a process, a little like Russian verbs, e.g. заплакать - to begin to cry as opposed to плакать - to cry.

In most of your examples, the verb itself lasts a split-second and indicates a starting process. Skratta till, knarra till, gnälla till (as you can see, usually with sounds).

"med ryggen till" - yes, with his back turned; in a certain direction, so in this case, "till" has a slightly stronger prepositional usage, like in "stänga till" (fönstret/dörren) - to shut the window/door (partly or completely).

Hope this helps!
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eido
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby eido » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:44 pm

Morgana wrote:I just wanted to know what form athugið was in :cry:

Just going to pretend I didn't see any of that yet.

Ah, I love the smell of declensions in the morning. (Er, afternoon for me, apparently, since that's when it said this post was made according to my time zone.) It makes me want to get some more sleep, and I love that. *sigh*

No kidding, though. There is some inherent beauty to it.

Although, still no kidding, WTH man. I hear citizens shrieking and Godzilla stomping down the metropolis.

Still lovely, though.
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Neurotip
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby Neurotip » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:14 pm

Morgana wrote:I just wanted to know what form athugið was in :cry:

Just going to pretend I didn't see any of that yet.

Ah, so you know now.

Well, wrap up warm, come on out and enjoy the blizzard...

Seriously, if you can tame BÍN it is a powerful ally. Alaric can help.
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Ani
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby Ani » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:17 am

Morgana wrote:
Been at 226 pages SV reading since last weekend or Monday. I did a little bit of reading last night but it didn't budge the %, it was that little. If I were "keeping pace" with the 8.2 pages required per day to stay on track for 5,000 after 20 months, I would be at 336 pages :lol:

SV films are better, 15.2. "Pace" would be 6.7 at this early stage, so no worries here.

I should just quit based off of where my reading is at, both because I'm skeptical I'll get caught up any time soon and because it would relieve me of feeling the pressure to get caught up.


Honestly, one super challenge worth of reading is hardly a super challenge. I'm sorry you're feeling pressure. You could honestly quit right now and start again in 10 months and still finish it. If you do stick it out, your pace will dramatically improve by the end. A gap of 100 pages is no big deal. Sometimes I think short binges are less stress then trying to do so many different things in a day :/
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby eido » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:21 am

I know you probably couldn't read it because of the language my log was in, but I remembered a few Icelandic things from my teenhood.

Here's part of an Icelandic comedy I remember watching:

And here's part of the annual comedy special, Áramótaskaup:

Have you seen any of these?
I don't think I was able to watch the latter 'cause to my knowledge they never sub it.
Apparently I like to laugh. But I can't laugh if I'm not smart enough to get the joke. I can laugh if it's in another language, but only if it's screwball (I define this as 'screwy' - not 'battle of the sexes' as it's defined by film scholars) comedy like this (forgive the k-pop):

If you need context for the direct above, I can give it to you.
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Neurotip
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Re: Swedish & Icelandic in pomodoros

Postby Neurotip » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:44 pm

Morgana wrote:
If the stress is on the verb, it is just a normal verb with a preposition. If the stress is on the particle, you’ve got yourself a particle verb.

[*]But I’m reading, not listening!:
Many dictionaries include the phrase “med betonad partikel,” which goes on to define the word if stress is put on the particle.
Well... I guess that’s something I’ll have to look for next time I have to brave SAOB... :(

If you should happen across an Icelandic dictionary which makes that distinction, do let me know. The online dictionaries I use, namely wisc.edu and ordabok.is, are excellent but this is a major flaw of both. This became apparent to me the other day when I needed to look up 'koma fyrir'...
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