Dutch Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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trui
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby trui » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:25 pm

tommus wrote:Well, it looks like this Dutch study group is not becoming "a place to encourage each other and discuss learning Dutch". I can only assume that my contributions are not what people had in mind about this group. The group idea is very powerful IF AND ONLY IF people participate. If people don't contribute, then there will be nothing here to discuss or learn. Where is everybody? What are you learning? What resources have you found? What questions have come up? What can we discuss? Is anyone actually studying or improving their Dutch?


For me, it's when someone posts, I always feel the need to respond to their posts. But so many and in the same format can get a bit intimidating and tiring sometimes for me, I have to admit. They feel like they'd belong more in a Dutch resources thread? Not that resources don't belong in a Dutch study group, but I think a balance can be found. So they're appreciated! I just usually don't know what to do or say about them.

As for studying, I'm kind of in a quiet period right now, mostly reading or listening to the news. But I'll be back to my next semester of Dutch courses on Monday! :)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Christi » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:30 pm

tommus wrote:

Daar geef ik geen ene moer om.
I don't care about any of that.
(Source with many examples: context.reverso.net)


As a native speaker I'd say the meaning of this expression has a different nuance than the English tranlation given here. I think I might actually translate it as not giving a shit/fuck. Not sure if that's correct, but it's certainly not an expression to use at work or with people you aren't close to.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:23 pm

tommus wrote:Well, it looks like this Dutch study group is not becoming "a place to encourage each other and discuss learning Dutch". I can only assume that my contributions are not what people had in mind about this group. The group idea is very powerful IF AND ONLY IF people participate. If people don't contribute, then there will be nothing here to discuss or learn. Where is everybody? What are you learning? What resources have you found? What questions have come up? What can we discuss? Is anyone actually studying or improving their Dutch?


tommus,

When you posted comments on what you expected the group to be and how it should function, I felt a strong resistance to it, but I didn’t have the time to reply, and also felt i’d see where it’d lead. I don’t think, particularly on a forum (as opposed to a group meeting in person), that you can force such expectations, even if the title of the thread lends to it being exactly what you expect.

I must say that I’m no longer currently studying Dutch, so I’m not really a full ‘member’ of this group anymore, but I could pick it up again in the near future, it depends on a few factors. Still, my reaction would’ve been the same even if I continued with my study of Dutch.

The kinds of things you post are not what I would post. You’re certainly most welcome to post what you do, and I appreciate it, but I will not repeat my findings from my studying I do alone, again online. It’s a waste of time. Does it benefit others? Depends on the person. It seems you certainly do benefit from this kind of group study, and given the name of this group, it makes sense, then perhaps I’m the one who’s out of place. For me it’s more about sharing the experience of learning Dutch and asking about some trickier elements that one is struggling to figure out on one’s own.

I seriously do not like studying in this manner (group studying), in which almost everything being learned is shared, it slows things down and it’s inefficient. tommus it seems that you’re attempting to force your ideals on how others will use this group (your capital letters in your above quoted post seem to be attempting to foce your ideals again). That won’t work when there aren’t enough Dutch learners. Were there many more Dutch learners, there’d be likely a big enough percentage, who prefer to study as you do, to parcticipate in the manner you expect. Others like myself wouldn’t appreciate it.

Thus, although I have little if any voice here now, given I’ve stopped with Dutch (yet again), I’d suggest a more flexible approach, come to understand that there’s likely to be little acitivity given the small number in this group and just go with the flow. I don’t mean this to be offensive, tommus, and I totally see what you’re trying to get out of such a group, but I just can’t see it working with so few members who are likely to want to approach the communication of this group in a different way than yourself.
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:11 pm

Christi wrote:As a native speaker

Thanks very much Christi. It is great to get native comments of these sorts of conversational expressions, especially because the online website translators often don't handle them well, and there are few places you can find the true meanings. For this particular phrase, it seems that it can be interpreted in a number of ways, seeing how many in-context references there were in context.reverso.net. I had never come across 'moer' before.
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:30 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote: I’d suggest a more flexible approach

I am very open to being flexible. But if you look at the other Dutch threads on LLorg, they have no more activity. They died due to inactivity. So I am trying to stimulate and encourage some activity and participation here before this thread dies too. I prefer to discuss Dutch learning, resources, material, methods, encouragement, etc. and that is what if am trying to do in this thread.

I realise that these long lists of conversational phrases may not be what everyone wants to see here. I was surprised myself how many of these expressions "jump out" of the 'reacties' to news articles. There seems to be considerably more that can be 'harvested'. I don't think this sort of thing is readily available anywhere. I may go back and collect all these and put them in the Wiki, and leave just a link to that material here. But I am only going to do it if there is some interest.
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Elsa Maria » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:37 pm

Some thoughts: Even though I launched this group, I feel no sense of ownership over it. From my point of view, whatever you post is fine as long as it is polite and abides by forum rules. That is why I said that if people want to post their stats here, I don't mind. Did you have an amazing study week with hours that shattered all previous weeks? I'm happy to give you a round of applause. To me, that is a form of encouragement.

Considering that I have been a member of this forum since 2015 and only have a post count of 209, I don't think anyone can expect me to be a super-frequent poster. One of the selfish reasons that I started this group is just because I would like to have discussions with people who are studying the same language as me. I am still trying to enjoy writing a log, but it mostly feels like a boring conversation with myself.

And we all have different interests and levels. I merely skimmed over the posts tommus made from the news comments, but I don't mind them. On the other hand, I was quite excited to find out about Vertelcultuur because I have a high interest in folk tales, fairy tales, and storytelling. It is way above my reading level at the moment, but I will mark it for the future. So a belated thank you for the Vertelcultuur mention, tommus.

PM, glad you stopped by even if you are not currently studying Dutch. I am sure you will come back to it eventually :) You have a lot going on at the moment! An international move with young children is no small feat.

trui, I hope your semester gets off to a great start next week!

As for my own studies, I am pleased with my choice of Het Grote zelfleesboek. The little stories are by well regarded children's authors rather than written by a textbook committee, and I like that a lot. I now have leads to some promising children's literature as follow-up. And I have to prepare a short presentation for my next class, and I hope to start working on that today.
Last edited by Elsa Maria on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:52 pm

The European Union and European news in Dutch

A very important aspect of learning Dutch is to look at things through the eyes of Dutch-language speakers. The Netherlands and Belgium are in Europe and are EU members, so everything European is important to them. Here are two excellent resources to read and learn more from this perspective.

Dutch-language website of the European Union

Officiële website van de Europese Unie (Official website of the European Union)

There is a wealth of interesting information here in Dutch: About the EU, Live, work and travel in the EU, EU law, agriculture, business, culture, health, taxes, documents, publications, Kids Corner, learning material, etc. All the member countries of the EU are listed (in Dutch spelling) with a nice summary of each of these countries (all in Dutch). And much, much more. And of course all this information is also on the EU site in all the official languages of the EU. So you can do parallel reading, etc. in the language of your choice. A great resource.

Current news about Europe in Dutch

Europa Nu - onafhankelijk en actueel (Europe Now - independent & up-to-date)

This is a very extensive current news site, with much more. Headings are: Hot Issues, Europe in the world, Netherlands in Europe, Policy and the future, Who does what, Practical Europe, etc. Tons of great reading in Dutch on a very attractive web site.
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: 180 / 370
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: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
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Kat
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Kat » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:45 pm

I'm not actively studying at the moment, I just don't have enough time and energy right now.
When I do have some spare time, I usually don't feel like reading serious stuff, so I've been using childrens' books to keep in touch with Dutch.

Two resources that I really enjoy are "Lekturama Luistersprookjes en Vertellingen" and "Het grote Rijksmuseum luisterboek".

Lekturama Luistersprookjes is a collection of 39 books with fairy tales and other childrens' stories. Not only well-known Grimms' fairy tales but also a lot by Andersen, from One Thousand and One Nights as well as French, Russian and Spanish stories (all told in Dutch, of course).
I'm not providing a link because the only version I've discovered is on Youtube and I'm not entirely sure if it's copyrighted or not (apparently the publishing house went out of business in the 90s). However, it's easy enough to find the collection if you search for the title.
You can listen to the stories and read along on the screen. Or, if you prefer to only listen, you hear a "bling" whenever the page turns and there is something new to see. The booklets are really cute. Often I think, I'll just listen to one story and then I find myself going through a whole book.

Now on to the Rijksmuseum luisterboek. I had my eyes on this one for a while but I found it a bit pricey, especially with shipping from the Netherlands. Luckily I saw a second-hand copy on Boekwinkeltjes and snatched it up right away.
The package contains 2 CDs and a small booklet with the paintings that feature in the stories. Each of the 25 stories was written by a different childrens' book author. They are not trying to educate the listener about art. Instead they use the respective painting as an inspiration to create their own background story.

To give you an example, there's a painting about the St. Elizabeth's flood, a huge natural desaster that caused a few thousand casualties. The accompanying story is told from the perspective of a little girl who wakes up in the middle night and notices that something is wrong. She recalls that her grandmother used to tell her about a big flood (the first St. Elizabeth's flood 20 years earlier) when the dikes broke and many people died. Since the family notices the signs early on, they are able to flee to safety in their boat.
So far, I've listened to about half of the audio book and it's been a bit hit and miss. Some stories I really liked, others not so much. Considering that each of them was written by a different author and the intended audience is a bit younger than I am, that's not a big surprise.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:02 am

tommus wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: I’d suggest a more flexible approach

I am very open to being flexible. But if you look at the other Dutch threads on LLorg, they have no more activity. They died due to inactivity. So I am trying to stimulate and encourage some activity and participation here before this thread dies too. I prefer to discuss Dutch learning, resources, material, methods, encouragement, etc. and that is what if am trying to do in this thread.

I realise that these long lists of conversational phrases may not be what everyone wants to see here. I was surprised myself how many of these expressions "jump out" of the 'reacties' to news articles. There seems to be considerably more that can be 'harvested'. I don't think this sort of thing is readily available anywhere. I may go back and collect all these and put them in the Wiki, and leave just a link to that material here. But I am only going to do it if there is some interest.


Thanks for explaining tommus,

It makes perfect sense. I hope the group expands and brings with it more activity.
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:30 pm

Language learning should be interesting to ensure learners stick to it. If a person likes doing courses, memorising vocabulary and studying grammar, that's good. But I think, as soon as possible, one should use native material, both to improve your vocabulary, grammar, reading, listening, etc. and to keep an interest in the language and what it offers. A few years ago, it was not that easy to find lots of online Dutch material that might appeal to a particular learner. But that has changed. These days, the Dutch dikes have broken and we are getting flooded with lots of high quality free online text, audio, video, etc. that should provide a wide variety of interesting learning and enjoying.

Dutch Museum TV

Here is an excellent free resource for anyone who loves museums and might like to enjoy the Dutch Masters such as Rembrandt. The video is very high quality. The audio is excellent except that there is often music in the background which, in general, I find annoying. But the museum material is so interesting, you may not even notice any distractions. You need to register but that is easy; just your email and a password.

MuseumTV
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: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
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: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
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