Dutch Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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tommus
Blue Belt
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
Languages: English (N), French (B2), Dutch (B2), German (A1), Spanish (A1), Esperanto (A1), Mandarin (beginner)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:48 pm

Student, spreek je moerstaal!
Student, speak your native language!

Here is a comprehensive article in Dutch describing how much Dutch students are disadvantaged by taking their university programs in English. It comes down to their lack of ability in English even though the Dutch are recognised as being the best in the world at speaking English as a second language. The Dutch are also known to overestimate their abilities in English. A study shows that when a secondary school Dutch student enters university, the size of his/her English vocabulary is equal to that of a 9-year old native English student. So they are at a distinct disadvantage taking their university courses in English, especially when their professors are also Dutch speakers teaching in English. Three quarters of Masters degrees in the Netherlands are taught in English. The following statement is made in this article about the ability of teachers teaching in their second language: "You don’t say what you know, only what you can."

Here is a bit of the text from the article:

Dit komt vermoedelijk vooral doordat hun Engelse woordenschat ongeveer de helft kleiner is dan hun Nederlandse woordenschat. “Bekijk het zo: wanneer je van de middelbare school komt en aan je studie begint, is jouw Engelse vocabulaire te vergelijken met dat van een 9-jarig Engelstalig kind.
...
Het Engels als tweede taal is bij Nederlanders relatief hoog ontwikkeld. Dat blijkt bijvoorbeeld uit het feit dat ze al drie keer op rij in de EF English Proficiency Index zijn uitgeroepen tot de beste beheersers van het Engels als tweede taal wereldwijd. En toch wordt onze Engelse taalvaardigheid volgens De Groot overschat.
...
De titel van een artikel van een groep Spaanse onderzoekers over de belemmeringen die docenten ervaren wanneer ze onderwijs moeten geven in een taal die niet hun moedertaal is, is veelzeggend genoeg: “You don’t say what you know, only what you can.” Ook Nederlandse docenten hebben in het Engels een kleinere woordenschat dan in het Nederlands.

The complete article is here:

Student, spreek je moerstaal!
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Dutch
40 Boeken
● 35 Ned. Videos
● 370 Univ-Nederland
: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
● 730 Video Nieuws
● 104 Skype NL Chats
● 730 Tekst Nieuws
: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
: 730 / 730

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:04 am

A quick 'this is what i'm up to with Dutch' note...

I've been using Vocabulearn Level 1 to revise vocabularly previously known but fading away, Hugo Dutch in 3 Months (I'm up to the final week) for grammar, vocab, etc and I just started using Dutch with Ease as well as Le nouveau neerlandais sans peine simulataneously, since they are both the same course, one from an English base, the other from a French base. And as I'd like to use much more in the way of courses from a French base wherever possible, having the English-based version to refer to and compare notes against is both handy and interesting since the grammatical notes differ as you might expect when comparing the language being learned (Dutch) to the base language (English or French in this case). Anyway... that's all from me as I step up my focus on Dutch of late considering the important role the language may have in possible future employment.

Hope all your Dutch studies are going well peoples,
tot de volgende keer ;)
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Shainarue
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Languages: English (N), Dutch (beginner), Spanish (beginner)
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Intro

Postby Shainarue » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:14 pm

Hi all! I'm still very much a beginner in the Dutch language and found this forum in a search for Dutch learning resources.
I am wanting to learn Dutch because my sister-in-law is Dutch and I wanted to be able to converse with her and her family in their native language (even though they are fluent speakers in English). I just thought it would be a nice gesture and also fun to learn a new language!
My current tools include Memrise (minimum 15 minutes daily), a Leitner Flashcard Box system, watching the cartoon 'Word Party' in Dutch on Netflix, and listening to the podcast series 'Zeg het in het Nederlands' on Soundcloud. Unfortunately, I haven't bit the bullet to purchase the transcripts for that podcast yet, so I really haven't gotten much out of listening so far. I also have a subscription to Babbel, but I don't use it much and I'm planning to cancel the subscription in November.
The things I struggle with the most, so far, is knowing when to use 'het' vs 'de' and when the words get arranged in a different order than how they are directly translated. Sometimes, it's in the same order and sometimes they're moved around. It's hard to remember!
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User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... f=15&t=784
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Re: Intro

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:16 pm

Shainarue wrote:The things I struggle with the most, so far, is knowing when to use 'het' vs 'de' and when the words get arranged in a different order than how they are directly translated. Sometimes, it's in the same order and sometimes they're moved around. It's hard to remember!


Hi Shainarue,

I'd recommend a good Dutch course to provide an overview of the basic grammatical concepts of the language, teach you some more vocab and get you actively constructing sentences in the language through the exercises. Hugo, Dutch in 3 Months is definitely my recommendation. Get it with the audio. The course will definitely clarify some of the problems you're having. Good luck!

PM
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Shainarue
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Languages: English (N), Dutch (beginner), Spanish (beginner)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Shainarue » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:15 pm

tommus wrote:I've continued reading the over-500 comments to the article in nu.nl about climate change:

Ook ijs op Groenland smelt veel sneller dan verwacht
Also ice on Greenland melts faster than expected

I made notes as I read through the comments of words, expressions and short sentences that might be useful for general discussion groups or ordinary conversation. Here are some more examples:
[...]
Ik snap wat je zegt. I understand what you say.
[...]
That's all for now.

I'm new to this site and to this forum, and I'm slowly working my way through all the comments in this thread. I'm currently on page 4, LOL!

Tommus, I truly appreciate all of the resources you have provided. I have so many tabs open and/or saved that it will take me quite some time to get through them as I have a few jobs and other hobbies besides learning Dutch. The most recent resource I've read of yours was the comments (with translations) from the news articles. I thought I'd write some down and study common responses I could see myself using in early beginner conversations. I'm only on the first one so far, but I've found one with a translation of "I understand what you say" but the verb in Dutch is written as 'snap' whereas I've learned the verb 'begrijp' as understand.

I'm curious if anyone knows why/when 'Ik snap" is used instead of "Ik begrijp" (which is the verb I've learned as a beginner). I used context.reverso.net to look it up and then used the reverse English to Dutch, at which point the 'begrijp' translations were listed among the 'snap' translations.
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User avatar
tommus
Blue Belt
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
Languages: English (N), French (B2), Dutch (B2), German (A1), Spanish (A1), Esperanto (A1), Mandarin (beginner)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:27 am

Well, 'ik snap het' and 'ik snap het niet' are very common casual Dutch conversational expressions, as can be seen if you put them into Reverso. I think begrijp is a more formal word that would be seen more in text than in conversation.

The authoritative Dutch dictionary VanDale translates it to English.

And gives synonyms in Dutch.

I'd say it is a good expression to know and use to sound like a local. Very useful.
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Dutch
40 Boeken
● 35 Ned. Videos
● 370 Univ-Nederland
: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
● 730 Video Nieuws
● 104 Skype NL Chats
● 730 Tekst Nieuws
: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
: 730 / 730

User avatar
tommus
Blue Belt
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:59 pm
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
Languages: English (N), French (B2), Dutch (B2), German (A1), Spanish (A1), Esperanto (A1), Mandarin (beginner)
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tommus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:53 am

Here is a good 9-minute Dutch YouTube video about how to have a good conversation with someone you just met. The title suggests tips for a woman to use on a date with a man. But it could work either way. And the Dutch audio is very clear and distinct, and the subtitles are very accurate and well synced. And there are follow-on videos.

5 Tips Voor Leuke Gespreksstof Op Een Date Met Een Man
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Dutch
40 Boeken
● 35 Ned. Videos
● 370 Univ-Nederland
: 25 / 40
: 35 / 35
: 180 / 370
● 730 Video Nieuws
● 104 Skype NL Chats
● 730 Tekst Nieuws
: 730 / 730
: 82 / 104
: 730 / 730

Shainarue
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Languages: English (N), Dutch (beginner), Spanish (beginner)
x 2

Re: Intro

Postby Shainarue » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:03 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Shainarue wrote:The things I struggle with the most, so far, is knowing when to use 'het' vs 'de' and when the words get arranged in a different order than how they are directly translated. Sometimes, it's in the same order and sometimes they're moved around. It's hard to remember!


Hi Shainarue,

I'd recommend a good Dutch course to provide an overview of the basic grammatical concepts of the language, teach you some more vocab and get you actively constructing sentences in the language through the exercises. Hugo, Dutch in 3 Months is definitely my recommendation. Get it with the audio. The course will definitely clarify some of the problems you're having. Good luck!

PM


Thanks for the recommendation! I have ordered it - and it's scheduled to arrive in April!
1 x

Shainarue
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Languages: English (N), Dutch (beginner), Spanish (beginner)
x 2

Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Shainarue » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:53 pm

Question to the members who use or have used Pimsleur for conversational learning:
Their pricing page has a monthly rate of $14.95. But when I choose Dutch, it takes me to package pricing. I can purchase all 30 lessons for $120 or purchase in 5-lesson bundles at $22/ea.
Am I inferring correctly that the Dutch lessons aren't available at the monthly pricing? Or is the monthly pricing fee in addition to the lessons fees?
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Shainarue
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Languages: English (N), Dutch (beginner), Spanish (beginner)
x 2

Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Shainarue » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:01 pm

Nevermind. I called. I can get the first lesson free instead of a 7-day trial. Dutch doesn't exist in their subscriptions so it's only packages. So I guess I'll be buying in 5-pk bundles after the first free lesson because I'm really not keen on the idea of buying all 30 lessons upfront with only one lesson. I watched the testimonial videos and quite a few of them indicated it took multiple lessons for them to finally 'click' into the new learning process.
Shainarue wrote:Question to the members who use or have used Pimsleur for conversational learning:
Their pricing page has a monthly rate of $14.95. But when I choose Dutch, it takes me to package pricing. I can purchase all 30 lessons for $120 or purchase in 5-lesson bundles at $22/ea.
Am I inferring correctly that the Dutch lessons aren't available at the monthly pricing? Or is the monthly pricing fee in addition to the lessons fees?
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