Dutch Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:13 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:Ah, well it was actually trousers I was thinking of :lol:

Broek/en vs trousers serving as both singular and plural in English and requiring additional context to indicate singularity or plurality.

The fact the exercise was about clothes is probably what made my brain think of it - although it doesn't really matter in this instance, I'd just totally misunderstood the exercise and Jeff's initial response [which I now understand.]


Ah yes. Those are unusual though - trousers, scissors etc. Known as (I believe) plurale tantum. However I completely understand your position because I remember making the same judgement using 'brillen' for (a pair of) glasses.
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tungemål
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tungemål » Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:28 pm

Le Baron wrote:Het zijn waardeloze dingen.

This is not an English group, but still: can't you say this in English?
"It's only worthless things". Or should it be "they are worthless things"?

Ah - I see that the plural form could look strange with "het".
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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:51 pm

tungemål wrote:This is not an English group, but still: can't you say this in English?
"It's only worthless things". Or should it be "they are worthless things"?

I'm not a grammarian, but yes I think that it would in some informal types of sentences. E.g:

- What's in that room?
- Oh it's only (some) worthless things.

Though I'd expect 'stuff' or 'junk' as an indefinite noun, rather than 'things'. And if the direct question was: 'Are they of any value?' then the answer, using 'things/objects' must be: 'they' are...'
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tungemål
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tungemål » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:38 am

Baron, what podcast did you listen to that you mentioned in The perils of 'international English'?
I need suggestions for Dutch podcasts.
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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:13 pm

tungemål wrote:Baron, what podcast did you listen to that you mentioned in The perils of 'international English'?
I need suggestions for Dutch podcasts.


It was this podcast series: https://www.nporadio1.nl/podcasts/long- ... uwpandemie

More here: https://www.nporadio1.nl/podcasts
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tungemål
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tungemål » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:42 am

Question to all Dutch experts:
"Appreciate" in Dutch is "prijs op stellen". We have a similar expression in Norwegian, but how is it used? What is the order of the words? I got the impression that it's said like:
"je moet dat op prijs stellen" which is the opposite of what I'd say: "je moet daarop prijs stellen".
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Ug_Caveman
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Ug_Caveman » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:58 pm

Sprung from a request from tungemål in my log, I thought I'd ask here for some opinions.

This piece of text and series of exercises is rated at B1 by the Youtuber who's created them and just wanted to ask the opinions of those with a better understanding of Dutch/CEFR levels in general if they would agree?

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Languages: English (N), Dutch (passed A2 exam in May 2021, failed B1 in May 2023 - never sit an exam when you have food poisoning!)

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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:34 pm

tungemål wrote:Question to all Dutch experts:
"Appreciate" in Dutch is "prijs op stellen". We have a similar expression in Norwegian, but how is it used? What is the order of the words? I got the impression that it's said like:
"je moet dat op prijs stellen" which is the opposite of what I'd say: "je moet daarop prijs stellen".

I'm not an expert, but I'll have a stab. The official word for appreciate is 'waarderen', but yes op prijs stellen/prijs op stellen (literally to put a price on (it)). I most commonly hear it said in a formulation like this: 'ik stel het erg op prijs...' or perhaps 'dat zou ik erg op prijs stellen...'. Although there are easier and more common ways to render that meaning: dat zou ik echt waarderen/dat zou ik erg fijn vinden. Or some such. Notice how common it is to start that sort of sentence with 'dat' rather than 'ik', practically swapping their places.

With regard to your formulation above, which I believe is saying 'you must/should appreciate that' I would formulate it like this: je zou daar prijs op moeten stellen.

Note that the phrase is fixed so adding daar won't link up with the op as daarop. So they are separate: je moet daar prijs op stellen/daar moet je prijs op stellen.
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Le Baron
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:45 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:Sprung from a request from tungemål in my log, I thought I'd ask here for some opinions.

This piece of text and series of exercises is rated at B1 by the Youtuber who's created them and just wanted to ask the opinions of those with a better understanding of Dutch/CEFR levels in general if they would agree?

Do you consider it perhaps higher or lower? It sounds/looks like regular Dutch to me of the sort they put on the government websites to reach all general levels of comprehension. You might want to compare it with the official pages on this from the Rijksoverheid website: De donorwet. Which is even shorter!

Did you notice when he was reading the paragraph donorregister he said 'gemeente' instead of 'website'? Also he says transplantatie like 'transplantasie'. So he's a southerner. :)
Last edited by Le Baron on Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tungemål
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Re: Dutch Study Group

Postby tungemål » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:22 pm

Ok thanks, that was helpful.
But my question was: The expression 'ik stel het erg op prijs' looks like it is literally: "put something on price" instead of "put price on something".

Le Baron wrote:
tungemål wrote:Question to all Dutch experts:
"Appreciate" in Dutch is "prijs op stellen". We have a similar expression in Norwegian, but how is it used? What is the order of the words? I got the impression that it's said like:
"je moet dat op prijs stellen" which is the opposite of what I'd say: "je moet daarop prijs stellen".

I'm not an expert, but I'll have a stab. The official word for appreciate is 'waarderen', but yes op prijs stellen/prijs op stellen (literally to put a price on (it)). I most commonly hear it said in a formulation like this: 'ik stel het erg op prijs...' or perhaps 'dat zou ik erg op prijs stellen...'. Although there are easier and more common ways to render that meaning: dat zou ik echt waarderen/dat zou ik erg fijn vinden. Or some such. Notice how common it is to start that sort of sentence with 'dat' rather than 'ik', practically swapping their places.

With regard to your formulation above, which I believe is saying 'you must/should appreciate that' I would formulate it like this: je zou daar prijs op moeten stellen.

Note that the phrase is fixed so adding daar won't link up with the op as daarop. So they are separate: je moet daar prijs op stellen/daar moet je prijs op stellen.
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