Haitian Creole Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Decidida
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Languages: English (N), Spanish (beginner), Haitian Creole (beginner), Latin (forgotten), Ancient Greek (forgotten)
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Mon May 28, 2018 7:25 pm

I am going to have to save up for Pawol Lakay. I think I asked my library to buy it. A couple weeks ago, I know I asked them to buy some Creole things, but I forget what I asked for.

What is the difference between byen, bon, and bòn?

I am done with Spanish for the day and have moved onto Creole. I hope to be able to put in 3 solid hours of Creole study today. I have studied about an hour of law, but need to put in a few more hours into that today, too. People are busy and I have time to focus on myself and my stuff, today, so I am trying to take advantage of that.

I am hopping from resource to resource. I learn languages best by overlapping resources.

My neighbors are mystified by my habit of hitting the Mango audio files repeatedly about 30 times and chanting along, to work on my pronunciation.

Haitihub has listening exercises that are really hard for me to understand. I have usually only chanted single words in Mango, but now I am chanting whole phrases in Haithub and Mango.

This video on trailing sounds was really helpful to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2bXgfB7z1A

I ended out subscribing to Haitihub. I charged it with a 6 month interest free loan, but ... it still needs to be paid back. Sigh! The very limited vocabulary for such comprehensive beginner grammar instruction really appeals to me, though. I believe if I can master that material this summer, I will be able to use people and a dictionary more effectively when I go back to school and have so much less time to study formal lessons.

I ordered more Pimsleur through interlibrary loan. I hope the hold went through.

The Brainscape French Creole is free on my ipad, but not my laptop. That is another limited vocabulary that looks like I can master that.

Today, I look at Spanish and Creole, and see the twin mountains ahead of me, and I need to just make some smaller goals. The more I know the better, but giving up will be nothing. I need to focus on the smaller end of "the more the better". A little is better than nothing.

My smallest goals are to be able to greet people in their language, and either make myself vulnerable and show them that their English is better than my Spanish/Creole, or at least be able to communicate with non-English-speaking people enough that they can keep their dignity about things like talking about where the bathroom is. I believe I can do that in both languages.

I want more. I may or may not be capable of more. Time will tell. I need to focus on the smaller goal. I need to do that. That is better than nothing. I cannot give up, not matter how tall the mountains are.
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iguanamon
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby iguanamon » Mon May 28, 2018 9:09 pm

Decidida wrote:...What is the difference between byen, bon, and bòn?

I don't usually answer L2 grammar questions on the forum. First because I am not a linguist or a grammar expert and secondly because I'm not a native-speaker. I usually leave the grammar explanations/corrections to native-speakers, but there are no HC native-speakers on the forum, so, here goes: "byen" in its adverb sense pretty much means "fine, well, alright". "Bon" is equivalent to "good" in English. The same mistakes with confusing "good" and "well" in English are made in grammar in by native English-speakers every day. While you will be understood if you say "He did good", "He did well" is the correct way to express the concept. "Bon" just like "good" in English is an adjective- used to modify nouns, not verbs.

"Bòn" is the equivalent of the French feminine form of "bon"- "bonne", and it has the same sound as the French word, "bonne/bòn"-ipa: "bɔn"; a different sound than "bon": ipa "bɔ̃". Bòn is a carry over from French and is used in a few instances: like "Bòn ane/Bòn chans/Bòn volontè" = "Happy New Year/Good luck/Willingness"; also "Yon bòn fwa/Once and for all" and "Bòn konduit/Good behavior" which preserves the sound of the French source and agrees with nouns that are feminine in French. "Bòn" is one of the very few instances of word gender in Kreyòl. Incidentally, "bòn nan" is a noun and means "the maid".
Decidida wrote:I ended out subscribing to Haitihub. I charged it with a 6 month interest free loan, but ... it still needs to be paid back. Sigh! The very limited vocabulary for such comprehensive beginner grammar instruction really appeals to me, though. I believe if I can master that material this summer, I will be able to use people and a dictionary more effectively when I go back to school and have so much less time to study formal lessons.

There's really no need to buy courses or pay to subscribe to anything when so much good, free material is available for learning, but to each their own.
Decidida wrote:Today, I look at Spanish and Creole, and see the twin mountains ahead of me, and I need to just make some smaller goals. ... I cannot give up, not matter how tall the mountains are.

There are a couple of proverbs in HC that may be appropriate here: "Deyè mòn gen mòn"- "Behind the mountain there are more mountains" and "Piti piti, zwazo fè nich"- "Little by little, the bird makes a nest". Haiti is a very mountainous and also, fatalistic, country. The first proverb speaks to the futility of life sometimes because behind the mountain are even more mountains to climb, yet another problem to solve. The second proverb is also meaningful to language-learners. That's exactly how we advance in a language- step by step, little by little. We build upon what we learn but in order to advance we must keep building. Deyè mòn gen mòn. The good thing about learning Kreyòl is that the grammar is not that hard to master for an English-speaker and, in a relatively short time you can be on your way to being conversational in a basic way. Then you build on that, and build and build. I'm still building. We're on a long journey.
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Decidida
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Mon May 28, 2018 10:09 pm

Every day, I ask myself if it is possible to drop one language, even for a little while. It just isn't. And two of them makes this more daunting. Having clear and smaller goals that are attainable and meaningful help me not get too discouraged.

Not too long ago, a lady in a hospital elevator spoke no English and was deeply distressed. I could do little to help. I knew even less Creole than I do now. I know I can learn enough Creole to make a difference in situations like that. I think she just needed help getting to the right floor, and might have needed me to know little more than some numbers, up, down, etc.

Thank you for the proverbs. I think memorizing proverbs in Creole will help me internalize the grammar and learn vocabulary.

I know I can do this without the subscription, but with classical languages, I benefitted from a spine curriculum with a reduced vocabulary while tackling the grammar. Getting the grammar down with less vocabulary to master is much easier for me. I'm so overwhelmed with things to study right now, I feel desperate to fall back upon something that has worked for me in the past. I believe I can master a couple hundred words and a decent understanding of the grammar, If I just do not get distracted by a bunch of vocabulary.

In Spanish class, at the end of the semester, the teacher tripled the pace of the class and at the last moment threw a ton of vocabulary at us that wasn't of interest to me. It frustrated me.

Spanish and Creole are different languages and I have different short-term requirements for them. I know what I want to accomplish by the end of the summer with both of them, though. What I want to accomplish is not how most books are set up. I am a weird learner. I get my eyes on a target and get really really REALLY frustrated with resources that take me on side trips. I will scream and throw books. It is a curse and blessing how I learn. It got me the highest grades in my math class last semester, but ... by the end, the head tutor was traumatized. The teacher was laughing, but not the tutor. In my worst moments, I would just walk away from them while they were still in mid-sentence. I didn't have a second to lose and if what they were saying wasn't helping me reach my targets, I didn't even have time for politeness. And neither did they. There was a line of other students waiting to talk to them. Pleasantries and scoldings take time. I skipped them.

In Creole, Learn vs teach does not seem to follow the same rigid rules as in English in some reputable published resources. I haven't been able to figure out if good vs well follows the same rules as English. And then when I realized I was dealing with bòn vs bon as well, I wanted to tear my hair out. Thanks!
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iguanamon
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
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Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby iguanamon » Mon May 28, 2018 11:50 pm

I have updated my resources to include the University of Florida resources. If I can think of anything else I have used, I'll update the post again, but I have cited more than enough for anyone who is interested to learn the language. At least now, most of what I have used to learn Haitian Creole is in one place here at the forum. I don't expect many people to learn the language, but if it helps just one person to get the same joy I have from having learned the language it's been worth the time and trouble.
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Decidida
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Tue May 29, 2018 5:49 am

Thank you so much! I am thrilled that we have links all in one place. You never know who might be reading. Most forums have lurkers that do not post for a variety of reasons.

I tripped over my ethernet cord again. I’m not even sure what is broken, now. I decided to stop messimg around and bought some type of WiFi thing at the store, but it started updating firmware and froze. I just cannot win. I’m using my phone as a portable hotspot for tonight and then I do not know what I am doing. The trip to a neighboring city and the set up time ended my study time. And all for nothing. I think the store will give me a refund; I hope so anyway. More study time lost bringing it back.
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Decidida
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Thu May 31, 2018 10:45 pm

My technology problems are making me have to adjust my study plans.

Part of the Haitihub subscription includes the Creole Made Easy Made textbook in hardcopy mailed to mailing address. My copy came in today.

I am finding more variety in grammar and spelling in Creole resources than Spanish. Especially older resources and internet resources created by “boots on the ground” people working in rural areas. This is difficult for me, because I pay extreme attention to details and then attempt to find patterns in what I am observing. I literally get a stomach ache when I cannot find patterns in something, and when reading conflicting sources of information.

Languages are not math. I understand that at a superficial level. But ... I cannot help myself from wanting to clean up my notes enough to have a specific plan of action for my speech.
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Decidida
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:49 pm

Duolinga Tiny Cards flashcard app has Haitihub and other Haitian flash card sets that range from foods to numbers to romance topics. Streaming is free, but downloaded sets costs money.
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Decidida
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:31 pm

The newest update of the Creole lessons in the iphone Mango app, now include multiple choice questions.

Mango lessons can be downloaded and do not require streaming.

Most capital libraries offer a free online subscription to Mango, and most capital cities offer a free card to all residents and employees of the state. If you can get to the capital once a year to provide proof of address, the online resources are usually worth the trip.
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IronMike
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby IronMike » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:36 pm

Just read a great book called The Creole Debate by John McWhorter. Much discussion about Haitian Creole. Makes me want to study it. ;)
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Decidida
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Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:58 pm
Languages: English (N), Spanish (beginner), Haitian Creole (beginner), Latin (forgotten), Ancient Greek (forgotten)
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Re: Haitian Creole Study Group

Postby Decidida » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:06 pm

That book looks really interesting!

You are welcome – there seems to be many ways of saying it, with different subtle meanings.

Ou Merite
Pa gen pwoblèm
padekwa

Anyone want to discuss "You are welcome"?
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