English Study Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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rdearman
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Re: English Study Group

Postby rdearman » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:35 pm

"a toy" means one toy. The use of 'a' indicated it is a single toy. However if you mean a single specific toy you would use "the toy"

  • I want to buy toys. - multiple unspecified toys are desired
  • I want to buy a toy. - a single toy of a non specified type is desired.
  • I want to buy the toy.- a single specific toy of specific design, make , model etc is desired
  • I want to buy the toys. - multiple toys of a known number and type. E.g. all the toys in that box.

I find that mandarin has a more laxidasical structure when related to number.

Hope this helps?
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Re: English Study Group

Postby Zhong » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:22 am

rdearman wrote:...I find that mandarin has a more laxidasical structure when related to number.

laxidasical: lacking enthusiasm and determination; carelessly lazy.

Thank you for your reply, rdearman, and yes, Chinese is a language not compared to English so precise and thus more flexible in general. And that's what have puzzled me when I was trying to figure out a proper translation in English (as my personal language practice.)

You see, the original sentence is , let me number each sentence,
「1我要買玩具*,2我要買玩具。3買一個**,4我要買玩具。」
[*]我要買玩具 can mean "I want to buy a toy" or "I want to buy toys."
[**]買一個 is literally "buy one".

The third sentence is very informative. Not until it do we know he only wants to buy one toy. And the information implies more when it comes out of a pre-school kid. He is subconsciously reminding himself.

Having received suggestions from some other cyber-pals, I made a translation (S1) and it's two variations (S2, S3). Your comments please (esp. if S2 and S3 are grammatical)? Thank you.

S1. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. One. I want to buy a toy.
S2. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. Buying one. I want to buy a toy.
S3. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. To buy one. I want to buy a toy.
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Re: English Study Group

Postby rdearman » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 am

Zhong wrote:S1. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. One. I want to buy a toy.

This is fine. However, if you were speaking (or thinking to yourself) rather than writing you would simply say:

S1. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. I want to buy a toy.

You'd put emphasis on the A in order to stress that it is only one toy you want.
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Re: English Study Group

Postby raymondaliasapollyon » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:12 am

Hi all,

This is my first post in this place. If I'm posting in the wrong forum, feel free to remove this post.

The following is an extract from Charles Dickens's The Pickwick Papers.

‘Ah! poetry makes life what light and music do the stage—strip the one of the false embellishments, and the other of its illusions, and what is there real in either to live or care for?’

I'm wondering if "poetry makes life what light and music do the stage" is natural in contemporary English. If not, how would you rephrase it?
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Re: English Study Group

Postby rdearman » Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:41 pm

raymondaliasapollyon wrote:Hi all,

This is my first post in this place. If I'm posting in the wrong forum, feel free to remove this post.

The following is an extract from Charles Dickens's The Pickwick Papers.

‘Ah! poetry makes life what light and music do the stage—strip the one of the false embellishments, and the other of its illusions, and what is there real in either to live or care for?’

I'm wondering if "poetry makes life what light and music do the stage" is natural in contemporary English. If not, how would you rephrase it?

It is fairly contemporary. A modern alternative might be: poetry is to life what light and music is to the stage.

But actually, Dickens said it best. :)
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Re: English Study Group

Postby tungemål » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:07 pm

Zhong wrote:You see, the original sentence is , let me number each sentence,
「1我要買玩具*,2我要買玩具。3買一個**,4我要買玩具。」
[*]我要買玩具 can mean "I want to buy a toy" or "I want to buy toys."
[**]買一個 is literally "buy one".

The third sentence is very informative. Not until it do we know he only wants to buy one toy. And the information implies more when it comes out of a pre-school kid. He is subconsciously reminding himself.

Having received suggestions from some other cyber-pals, I made a translation (S1) and it's two variations (S2, S3). Your comments please (esp. if S2 and S3 are grammatical)? Thank you.

S1. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. One. I want to buy a toy.
S2. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. Buying one. I want to buy a toy.
S3. I want to buy toys. I want to buy toys. To buy one. I want to buy a toy.

A bit late but here's another suggestion:

I want to buy a toy. I want to buy a toy. One toy. I want to buy a toy.

"a toy" suggests only one, but the fact that it's one is not emphasised since "a" is unstressed.
"one toy" emphasises the number.

And yes, S2 and S3 are not very grammatical. I think that while you can say in chinese "to buy one", in English you'd rather link it with the noun. If you use the verb you also need the pronoun: "I'll buy only one".
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Re: English Study Group

Postby raymondaliasapollyon » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:28 pm

rdearman wrote:
raymondaliasapollyon wrote:Hi all,

This is my first post in this place. If I'm posting in the wrong forum, feel free to remove this post.

The following is an extract from Charles Dickens's The Pickwick Papers.

‘Ah! poetry makes life what light and music do the stage—strip the one of the false embellishments, and the other of its illusions, and what is there real in either to live or care for?’

I'm wondering if "poetry makes life what light and music do the stage" is natural in contemporary English. If not, how would you rephrase it?

It is fairly contemporary. A modern alternative might be: poetry is to life what light and music is to the stage.

But actually, Dickens said it best. :)


Thank you. By "fairly contemporary," are you implying it is not completely contemporary? Does the following work in contermporary English?

Food makes people what fuel does cars.

By the way, I find it interesting to study the differences between current English and earlier English.
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Re: English Study Group

Postby rdearman » Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:42 am

raymondaliasapollyon wrote:
rdearman wrote:
raymondaliasapollyon wrote:Hi all,

This is my first post in this place. If I'm posting in the wrong forum, feel free to remove this post.

The following is an extract from Charles Dickens's The Pickwick Papers.

‘Ah! poetry makes life what light and music do the stage—strip the one of the false embellishments, and the other of its illusions, and what is there real in either to live or care for?’

I'm wondering if "poetry makes life what light and music do the stage" is natural in contemporary English. If not, how would you rephrase it?

It is fairly contemporary. A modern alternative might be: poetry is to life what light and music is to the stage.

But actually, Dickens said it best. :)


Thank you. By "fairly contemporary," are you implying it is not completely contemporary? Does the following work in contermporary English?

Food makes people what fuel does cars.

By the way, I find it interesting to study the differences between current English and earlier English.

Honestly, it is hard to judge if that is contemporary since it isn't something someone would say outside a book. It is more "literary prose" than spoken English. So with that view then yes it is contemporary since you wouldn't be surprised to see that phrase in a modern novel.

For your sentence, "Food makes people what fuel does cars." it doesn't really work as a good metaphor. A metaphor is a figure of speech that makes a comparison between two non-similar things. Mostly because a car stops immediately when it runs out of fuel, but a human can go on for 30 days without food. Also, Dickens is taking poetic licence and constructing his sentence is a slightly non-standard way.
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Re: English Study Group

Postby raymondaliasapollyon » Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:54 am

Hello,

Could the "Hitting Mary" be okay in the following context?

John had a grudge against Mary. One day, he came on her and her boyfriend sitting in the park. Hitting Mary on the head, he ran away.

I'd appreciate your help.
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Re: English Study Group

Postby Le Baron » Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:24 pm

raymondaliasapollyon wrote:Hello,

Could the "Hitting Mary" be okay in the following context?

John had a grudge against Mary. One day, he came on upon her and her boyfriend sitting in the park. Hitting Mary on the head, he then ran away.

I'd appreciate your help.

Not really, the sentence is nonsensical...unless you add 'then' to 'he ran away' as I did above.
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