German group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
DaveAgain
Green Belt
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Languages: English (native), French (intermediate), German (beginner).
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Re: German group

Postby DaveAgain » Thu May 16, 2019 8:54 am

Kat wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:In lesson two we get the phrase "mit dem Dampfer" (by steamer). :-)


Warum findest du das außergewöhnlich? Dampfer sind auch heute noch beliebte Ausflugsschiffe. Ich bin im April das letzte Mal mit dem Dampfer gefahren. ;)

Wenn man „mit dem Dampfer“ bei Google eingibt, bekommt man über 100.000 Treffer.
Die meisten verweisen nicht auf historische Texte, sondern auf touristische Angebote.
A 'steamer' is literally a steam-powered boat.

If you tell me the german word is still applicable, that's good to know, but the english word refers to a specific, now obsolete, type of boat.
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Kat
Orange Belt
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Re: German group

Postby Kat » Thu May 16, 2019 9:08 am

DaveAgain wrote:
Kat wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:If you tell me the german word is still applicable, that's good to know, but the english word refers to a specific, now obsolete, type of boat.


As far as I know, they don't build this type of ship anymore but there are plenty old ones left that are still in good condition. It's not unusual to see them on the water and the word "Dampfer" is definitely not obsolete. Nowadays they are tourist attractions, kids love them.

I've taken a ride with a steamer in Potsdam (near Berlin), on Lake Constance (Bodensee) and on the river Elbe.
Here's a website of a steamship company with some pictures: https://www.saechsische-dampfschiffahrt ... r-diesbar/
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Speakeasy
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Re: German group

Postby Speakeasy » Thu May 16, 2019 10:48 am

DaveAgain wrote: ... A 'steamer' is literally a steam-powered boat ... the english word refers to a specific, now obsolete, type of boat.
Digression: I agree that “steamer” can refer to large, steam-powered, ocean-going vessels, locomotives, and the like. Nevertheless, as this type of propulsion system was so common over such a long period of time, in the marine shipping industry, the word became almost synonymous with that of “cargo ship” even in cases where the latter were powered by diesel engines. An example of the confusing use of the term would be “tramp steamer” for a cargo ship, propelled by diesel engines, which would “tramp around” the oceans delivering its cargo and searching for new prospects as a taxi driver might do. As an aside, the use of steam is not quite obsolete: one need only think of the nuclear-powered submarines which use super-heated steam in their propulsion systems. However, these vessels would be called “steamers” only out of affection by their crews. ;)
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DaveAgain
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Re: German group

Postby DaveAgain » Thu May 16, 2019 11:12 am

Speakeasy wrote: Nevertheless, as this type of propulsion system was so common over such a long period of time, in the marine shipping industry, the word became almost synonymous with that of “cargo ship” even in cases where the latter were powered by diesel engines. An example of the confusing use of the term would be “tramp steamer” for a cargo ship, propelled by diesel engines, which would “tramp around” the oceans delivering its cargo and searching for new prospects as a taxi driver might do.
I saw a documentary about the Cutty Sark a while back. They lost their tea trade to the "steam vessels + Suez canal" combination, I'm sure the 'tramp' description was applied to the latter stages of their career too, "tramp cargo ship"?
---
To give a little more context to my 1950s book, the supporting prose example for the steamer phrase was a journey from Britain to Holland. My first assumption was that 'Dampfer' would translate to 'ferry'.
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Kat
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Re: German group

Postby Kat » Thu May 16, 2019 11:49 am

DaveAgain wrote:To give a little more context to my 1950s book, the supporting prose example for the steamer phrase was a journey from Britain to Holland. My first assumption was that 'Dampfer' would translate to 'ferry'.


In dem Kontext ist das Wort „Dampfer“ wirklich ungewöhnlich, zumindest aus heutiger Sicht. Die Dampfer, die ich kenne, fahren alle auf Binnengewässern.

Ich kann mir aber auch nicht vorstellen, dass in den 50er Jahren noch echte Dampfschiffe auf dem Meer unterwegs waren. Vielleicht wird „Dampfer“ hier einfach stellvertretend für „großes Schiff“ verwendet? Heute würde man vermutlich Fähre sagen, wie von dir vorgeschlagen.
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Doitsujin
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Re: German group

Postby Doitsujin » Thu May 16, 2019 12:18 pm

DaveAgain wrote: ... A 'steamer' is literally a steam-powered boat ... the english word refers to a specific, now obsolete, type of boat.
AFAIK, such boats were usually referred to as Ozeandampfer.

Kat wrote:Heute würde man vermutlich Fähre sagen, wie von dir vorgeschlagen.
Ich vestehe unter "Fähre" ein Boot, das meist kürzere Strecken zurücklegt.

Unter "Dampfer" verstehe ich auch eher ein Ausflugsschiff für Touristen, das auf Flüssen und Seen kürzere Strecken zurücklegt.

@DaveAgain & @Speakeasy IIRC, there's a subtle difference between ship and boat in English. Can you please refresh my memory?
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DaveAgain
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Re: German group

Postby DaveAgain » Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm

Doitsujin wrote:@DaveAgain & @Speakeasy IIRC, there's a subtle difference between ship and boat in English. Can you please refresh my memory?

I think its just a size thing. Ships are a sub-set of boats. Very big boats. You wouldn't have a ship in a lake.

That said, non-boating people like myself would blur the distinction between the two words, and horrify any real seamen. :-)
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Speakeasy
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Re: German group

Postby Speakeasy » Thu May 16, 2019 2:54 pm

Doitsujin wrote: ... @DaveAgain & @Speakeasy IIRC, there's a subtle difference between ship and boat in English. Can you please refresh my memory?
I view the nomenclature used in English for classifying water-borne vessels as being “more of an art than a science.” It seems to change over time and it is likely influenced by matters such as technology, the practice of major players in the marine industry, government policy and, as for anything else, the latest trends.

The website “Marine Insight” provides a well-reasoned set of guidelines for determining whether a particular water-borne vessel should be classified as a “boat” or a “ship” and, given that the author is, himself, a marine engineer, I would be hard-placed to argue against his presentation: https://www.marineinsight.com/types-of-ships/7-differences-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/.

Nevertheless, in my own inexperience and in my once-passionate following of all things maritime, there exists much more variation than the “Marine Insight” guidelines would suggest. Actual practice varies within the marine industry as well as in the world’s naval fleets and it is sometimes guided by governments wishing to influence public perceptions concerning their investments in, or deployment of, these vessels (oh, yes, they do!). The definitions can even be a matter of government statute (to which politicians exempt themselves when making public statements) and can figure in legal disputes: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/S/Ship.aspx.
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Kraut
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Re: German group

Postby Kraut » Wed May 22, 2019 10:08 am

Datenbank

Universitätsbibliothek Bamberg


http://rzblx10.uni-regensburg.de/dbinfo ... =&ocolors=

Fachgebiet: Allgemeine und vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft

http://rzblx10.uni-regensburg.de/dbinfo ... gebiete=13

Atlas zur deutschen Alltagssprache

http://rzblx10.uni-regensburg.de/dbinfo ... l_id=12278

Märchenlexikon (WWW)

http://rzblx10.uni-regensburg.de/dbinfo ... tel_id=195
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EthanH
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Re: German group

Postby EthanH » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:08 pm

Hello everyone! I've been studying German now for about a month and thought I'd drop by and join the club. At the moment I am using Assimil and Anki but in need of another book to pair with it but am a little lost on what to choose, I guess I'll browse and ask around the forum. Cheers!
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“The English language was carefully, carefully cobbled together by three blind dudes and a German dictionary,” - Dave Kellett


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