German group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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tungemål
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Re: German group

Postby tungemål » Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:47 pm

What does this mean:
"... da hätte ich eher Angst schon ein paar Körner zu verschiessen"

I suspect it's an expression (Körner zu verschiessen). What is the meaning, both literal and figurative?
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DaveAgain
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Re: German group

Postby DaveAgain » Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:21 pm

tungemål wrote:What does this mean:
"... da hätte ich eher Angst schon ein paar Körner zu verschiessen"

I suspect it's an expression (Körner zu verschiessen). What is the meaning, both literal and figurative?
I tried using "Körner" as a search-term in redensarten-index.de (a German expressions website) and while it didn't bring up any associated expressions, it gave a definition which is not listed in dict.cc:
Bedeutung:
Kraft S ; Energiereserven

Beispiele:

Die Körner haben in der zweiten Hälfte nachgelassen
Pick hat innerhalb von 4 1/2 Wochen 11 Spiele gemacht, dass da die Körner nachlassen, ist doch klar!
Aber kurz vor dem Ziel zogen diejenigen, die in seinem Windschatten Körner gespart hatten, an ihm vorbei – so ist das Sportlerleben
Der Tempo-Handball, mit dem dem euphorisierten Neuling noch zu Saisonbeginn einige Überraschungen gelangen, ist nur noch selten umsetzbar, weil das rasante Offensivspiel genau die Körner kostet, die Bergemanns Truppe durch fehlende Ruhephasen schlichtweg nicht mehr hat

Ergänzungen:
Sportjargon; Stammt aus dem Radsport
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lichtrausch
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Re: German group

Postby lichtrausch » Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:31 pm

A related expression is "sein Pulver verschossen haben" (to have shot one's bolt).

⟨jmd. hat sein Pulver verschossen⟩ seine gesamten Mittel restlos aufgebraucht haben; aus eigener Kraft keine Möglichkeiten mehr haben, ein Geschehen zu beeinflussen; seine (strategischen) Möglichkeiten, Optionen (unnötig) schnell verspielt haben

https://www.dwds.de/wb/sein%20Pulver%20verschossen%20haben
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Doitsujin
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Re: German group

Postby Doitsujin » Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:42 pm

tungemål wrote:"... da hätte ich eher Angst schon ein paar Körner zu verschiessen"
This appears to be sports metaphor that I've never heard. But then again, I'm not really interesting in sports metaphors. :)
I agree with lichtrausch that this a reference to gunpowder, which is manufactured in different grain sizes. Hence a shooter might presumably use "Körner" (=grains) when referring to pieces of gunpowder and would want to use it sparingly to have enough gunpowder left in times of need.

If I had to write about this, I'd probably use the following, less ambiguous phrases:
  • mit seinen Kräften haushalten/sparsam umgehen
  • sich nicht verausgaben
Last edited by Doitsujin on Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kraut
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Re: German group

Postby Kraut » Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:53 pm

Schrotkörner?
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Carl
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Re: German group

Postby Carl » Wed May 31, 2023 2:53 am

I'm looking for German audio materials comparable to useful Spanish materials I've found.

I've been impressed by the power of the simple technique used at unlimitedspanish.com to convert passive knowledge to active conversational knowledge. In the podcasts and courses, Oscar tells stories and frequently pauses to ask simple questions about what he just said. In the podcast, and in the intermediate course that I purchased, the questions can sound almost insultingly simple--until I try to answer them in any detail. I find that it takes a lot of effort to activate the language I've effortlessly listened to and understood. And it's all in Spanish.

The Unlimited Spanish method is different than question-and-answer audio like Pimsleur, Language Transfer, or Michel Thomas. These all are looking for a specific translation from English to the TL. It's also different than simple repetition of phrases or sentences, as in the monolingual recordings of Glossika, Book2, and others. It's what Unlimited Spanish's Oscar calls a "conversation simulator," and I find it surprisingly effective.

Is anyone aware of anything like this for German?
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DaveAgain
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Re: German group

Postby DaveAgain » Wed May 31, 2023 6:42 am

Carl wrote:I've been impressed by the power of the simple technique used at unlimitedspanish.com to convert passive knowledge to active conversational knowledge. In the podcasts and courses, Oscar tells stories and frequently pauses to ask simple questions about what he just said. In the podcast, and in the intermediate course that I purchased, the questions can sound almost insultingly simple--until I try to answer them in any detail. I find that it takes a lot of effort to activate the language I've effortlessly listened to and understood. And it's all in Spanish.

Is anyone aware of anything like this for German?
Graded readers often have questions at the end of each chapter.
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Kraut
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Re: German group

Postby Kraut » Wed May 31, 2023 12:43 pm

Carl wrote:I'm looking for German audio materials comparable to useful Spanish materials I've found.

I've been impressed by the power of the simple technique used at unlimitedspanish.com to convert passive knowledge to active conversational knowledge. In the podcasts and courses, Oscar tells stories and frequently pauses to ask simple questions about what he just said. In the podcast, and in the intermediate course that I purchased, the questions can sound almost insultingly simple--until I try to answer them in any detail. I find that it takes a lot of effort to activate the language I've effortlessly listened to and understood. And it's all in Spanish.

The Unlimited Spanish method is different than question-and-answer audio like Pimsleur, Language Transfer, or Michel Thomas. These all are looking for a specific translation from English to the TL. It's also different than simple repetition of phrases or sentences, as in the monolingual recordings of Glossika, Book2, and others. It's what Unlimited Spanish's Oscar calls a "conversation simulator," and I find it surprisingly effective.

Is anyone aware of anything like this for German?



Can you manipulate an AI- Chatbot into providing the kind of stimulus you are looking for, they can create dialogues, questions about a text, change the outcome, point of view etc
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Carl
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Re: German group

Postby Carl » Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:29 am

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't been able to get the same initial flabbergasting sense of incoherence and incompetence from written questions (graded readers or AI-generated) as I have from the audio questions from Unlimited Spanish--and the ability to build good habits and skills out of my initial incompetence. I suppose I could really try to treat them as prompts for oral output. And there's probably already a bot powered by ChatGPT that would do this with audio in both directions.

And yes, Kraut, I have had some success getting ChatGPT to do this for me. I used the Microsoft version, accessed via Skype, since it can read things on the internet. My initial prompt was:
newtopic
You are a German teacher. I want you to give me questions about the German short story Hänsel und Gretel. Please use the version of it here: https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/barrierefr ... he100.html

Give me a bit of the text and then ask me questions in the style of this document:
https://unlimitedspanish.com/wp-content ... magico.pdf
The bits of text and questions begin on p. 3 of that document. They are in Spanish; I want everything in German.


I was quite satisfied with its outputs. It gave me snippets of the story followed by several questions, and I just typed "Continue" to get it to, well, continue. The version of Hänsel and Gretel it paraphrased for me didn't exactly follow the version I asked it to use, but in this case, I'm not at all concerned about AI hallucinations.
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Carl
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Re: German group

Postby Carl » Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:49 am

I guess what it comes down to is that reading something and responding to questions about it is much easier for me than listening to something, storing it in my short-term memory in a foreign language, and then responding to questions about it. That's why I'm really looking for audio.
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