German group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
Cavesa
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Re: German group

Postby Cavesa » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:33 pm

I definitely agree with WalkingAlone13, looking inside the book in a store or in a pdf, that is a very smart move. After all, we are all different. I really disliked Schritte that others praise, and I am glad I looked into it instead of buying it right away. Have a look and choose what you find accessible.

And Aokoye is right, not everything needs to be bilingual.

The recommendation of StudioD is a bit doubleedged. I've met people, who were using it in class as it was meant, and hated it. They were finding it chaotic, lacking explanations, based mostly on memorisation. When I looked inside, I understood their reasons. But it is possible the newer editions were improved a lot. I would be curious to read of other experience with it.

MikyMouse wrote:Thanks again for the recommendation on Themen Aktuell I had a quick look and they do look interesting. Did you buy the bilingual versions I presume? Did you buy the glossary and CDs too? From what I can tell there seems to be 3 parts to Themen Aktuell 1 - The workbook (ISBN 9783192516900), the 2 CDs (ISBN 9783190316908) and the glossary (ISBN 9783190816903)? There seems to be a few more German only books in the range.

No, that is not exact. I have the Kursbuch with CD (not paid separately), which is in German only, and includes the initial dialogues and texts, exercises, material for majority of the listening exercises. I have a bilingual Arbeitsbuch, with wordlists, grammar explanations, lots of exercises, key to exercises, and glossary, all in one. My copy is German-Czech, but there are many more versions, including German-English of course.
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Chung
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Re: German group

Postby Chung » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:05 pm

I'm strongly considering taking GI's B2 exam later this year as I haven't been able to get much more information from my GI about the Goethe Test-Pro which focuses on German in the workplace.

I've downloaded the freebies from telc, GI and ÖSD, but am open to buying a set of practice exams as well. How have your experiences been with these (if you've used them)? So far, I've turned up the volumes published by Cornelsen, Hueber and Klett.

On a related note, is it worthwhile to consider also Klett's set of practice tests for ÖSD's B2 exam? I know that all of the exams from ÖSD and GI (and telc) are linked to CEFR and barring GI's higher visibility are equally valid for demonstrating general proficiency. Yet would I really be doing myself a disservice by buying Klett's set of practice tests for ÖSD when I know that I'd take GI's exam?
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gsbod
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Re: German group

Postby gsbod » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:28 pm

If you are after exam specific practice, I would stick to materials geared towards the GI exam to get practice on the necessary exam techniques for each type of task in the exam.

For general preparation for the B2 level I would go for a B2 oriented textbook like Erkundungen, which as a bonus has some exercises modelled on GI exams, but has a broader approach too.
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aokoye
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Re: German group

Postby aokoye » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:07 pm

Chung wrote:I'm strongly considering taking GI's B2 exam later this year as I haven't been able to get much more information from my GI about the Goethe Test-Pro which focuses on German in the workplace.

I've downloaded the freebies from telc, GI and ÖSD, but am open to buying a set of practice exams as well. How have your experiences been with these (if you've used them)? So far, I've turned up the volumes published by Cornelsen, Hueber and Klett.

On a related note, is it worthwhile to consider also Klett's set of practice tests for ÖSD's B2 exam? I know that all of the exams from ÖSD and GI (and telc) are linked to CEFR and barring GI's higher visibility are equally valid for demonstrating general proficiency. Yet would I really be doing myself a disservice by buying Klett's set of practice tests for ÖSD when I know that I'd take GI's exam?

If you're interested in taking a specific exam I would not use resources aimed at other exams. Not all exams are structured the same way and there are going to be tasks in one exam that aren't covered in another and vice versa. I'm currently preparing for two different exams and while there are some similarities there are also massive differences. The only section that is more or less exactly the same is the writing one. So yes, I do think you would be doing yourself and your bank account a disservice by buying practice tests for the ÖSD when you're actually planning on taking the GI B2.

I also second the recommendation of Erkundungen B2 (though there are a lot of B2 books out there). I was actually just watching a youtube video aimed at people taking C1 and C2 exams that specifically warned against preparing for the tests by just going over test after test after test. Yes familiarising yourself with the test is important, but there's more to it than that.

In terms of visibility or clout, what are you wanting to use the results of the exam for and where? Doing the ÖSD if you want to work in Germany doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Taking any of those tests if you want to study in Germany or Austria doesn't make any sense save for a small number of exceptions.
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Chung
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Re: German group

Postby Chung » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:43 pm

gsbod wrote:If you are after exam specific practice, I would stick to materials geared towards the GI exam to get practice on the necessary exam techniques for each type of task in the exam.

For general preparation for the B2 level I would go for a B2 oriented textbook like Erkundungen, which as a bonus has some exercises modelled on GI exams, but has a broader approach too.


Thanks. As it happens, I have the entire Erkundungen series already (in addition to other goodies for B1 and harder published by Schubert and Hueber) but have yet to start working on the B2 volume as I'm still going through Teach Yourself Enjoy German which is less explicitly tied to an exam but still useful because of the introduction of "general life" topics (e.g. jobs, health and fitness, education) with the attendant vocabulary and grammatical features.

aokoye wrote:If you're interested in taking a specific exam I would not use resources aimed at other exams. Not all exams are structured the same way and there are going to be tasks in one exam that aren't covered in another and vice versa. I'm currently preparing for two different exams and while there are some similarities there are also massive differences. The only section that is more or less exactly the same is the writing one. So yes, I do think you would be doing yourself and your bank account a disservice by buying practice tests for the ÖSD when you're actually planning on taking the GI B2.

I also second the recommendation of Erkundungen B2 (though there are a lot of B2 books out there). I was actually just watching a youtube video aimed at people taking C1 and C2 exams that specifically warned against preparing for the tests by just going over test after test after test. Yes familiarising yourself with the test is important, but there's more to it than that.

In terms of visibility or clout, what are you wanting to use the results of the exam for and where? Doing the ÖSD if you want to work in Germany doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Taking any of those tests if you want to study in Germany or Austria doesn't make any sense save for a small number of exceptions.


The only trouble with the comparsion is that the approach taken by ÖSD and GI for B2 is very similar based on comparison of the mock exams for GI and ÖSD. I'd still have to deal with reading, listening, writing and speaking in that order on either provider's test. The gap definitely doesn't come off like the difference between TestDaF and GI/ÖSD. Even though geography means that my taking GI's exam is the only sensible option (in a perhaps weird coincidence, the only center for ÖSD exams in the USA is in Houston...), I wouldn't be against going for Klett's set of B2 practice exams for ÖSD (or even telc's?) at the right price (that set of ÖSD B2 practice exams also comes with 6 of them compared to the competitors in GI exams which offer 3 or 4 of them instead). If anything the reviews on amazon.de for all of the test prep material I'm considering presents a mixed bag. For some, the material is not representative of what's on the test (either harder or easier than the real test in hindsight), lacks an answer key (I saw this on reviews of Cornelsen's book), not great value for money (each set of practice exams for GI comes with 3 or 4 of them) or in the case of ÖSD's practice exams, the audio is spoken with an Austrian accent (duh!) which can be a little unnerving for someone not used to it or set on taking GI's exam. I'd definitely like to see any forum member's experience with using any of these 3rd party mock exams. There's already a fair bit of commentary or recommendation when it comes to textbooks (e.g. Erkundungen) or drillbooks (e.g. Sag's besser!), but nothing about practice exams.

I don't need certification for work or academia but it'd be something for my resumé and if necessary would provide something more specific than "working command of German" whenever asked by a hiring manager (LinkedIn can't be helped though since I'm limited to "limited working proficiency" or "full working proficiency"). There's also the thing about discipline whereby having that certification exam in the forseeable future forces me to keep studying given that it's sometimes hard to keep going every 2-3 days drawing just on interest in the language. TestDaF (or DSH) is definitely not in the cards for me as it is for you and I'm happy to keep circling among the unpolished types outside the ivory tower :mrgreen: (remember I'm that guy who's been interested more in ZDfB or rather Goethe-Test Pro because of its accent on business German but have only recently become resigned to focusing on the B2 exam given the lack of information on that business exam from my GI).
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aokoye
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Re: German group

Postby aokoye » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:38 pm

When I mentioned differences between tests in my previous post I wasn't talking about TestDaF and any of the GI tests, rather TestDaF and TELC C1 Hochschule - that said I don't blame you for not knowing that :) Having said that, I skimmed through example tests of the ÖSD B2 test and the GI B2 tests and I found differences in the reading, listening, writing, and speaking sections (so all of the large subsections). Some of those differences are fairly minor (parts of the speaking section for instance) and others are much large (sections of the writing section).

Honestly I would just take whatever test is logistically the most feasible for you and tailor your preparation to that test. In terms of test prep, I have heard good things about the Hueber's Fit fürs Goethe-Zertifikat C1 from a professor that I know who administers that test which would lead me assume that their B2 version is also probably good.
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gsbod
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Re: German group

Postby gsbod » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:24 pm

A question for some of the more advanced German learners here:

I am planning one more visit to Dussmann to stock up on German goodies before I leave Berlin at the end of this week - in particular C1 oriented materials. I had a browse last week and kept going back to the Erkundungen book and a book called Entscheidungen, also by Schubert Verlag with an emphasis on German in the workplace. I am looking for something easy to use for self study - ideally with a complete answer key and all audio inclusive, or at least easy to get hold of.

Any other textbooks I should take a look at?

Also, any recommendations for novels/interesting non fiction (this question is also for native speakers :D)?
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Systematiker
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Re: German group

Postby Systematiker » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:37 pm

gsbod wrote:
Also, any recommendations for novels/interesting non fiction (this question is also for native speakers :D)?


Not exactly an answer, but in that direction:

http://www1.wdr.de/mediathek/audio/wdr3 ... t-104.html

http://www1.wdr.de/mediathek/audio/wdr2 ... t-100.html
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aravinda
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Re: German group

Postby aravinda » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:31 am

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Last edited by aravinda on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aokoye
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Re: German group

Postby aokoye » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:18 pm

gsbod wrote:Any other textbooks I should take a look at?

I meant to reply to this earlier but forgot :/ That said, I think Erkundungen and Entscheidungen are both good bets. I personally would go with Erkundungen but that has more to do with my end goals than anything else. Honestly my real advice would be to go to Dussmann, take the books to a table and look at them (maybe two at a time), and then choose which one has the sort of exercises and texts you think will be most useful to you.
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