German group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
Kraut
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Re: German group

Postby Kraut » Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:58 pm

tungemål wrote:"Ich hoffe ich konnte euch ein bisschen was mit an die Hand geben"

"jemandem etw an die Hand geben" is an expression that means to help someone. (an useful expression).
But I'm a bit confused about the "was mit" - is that the direct object? is "mit" short for "damit"? or is "was mit" equal to "damit"?


"Jemandem etwas an die Hand geben" and "jemandem etwas mit an die Hand geben" are the same: "mit an die Hand" is a unit, separate from the unit "ein bißchen was", "ein bißchen was" being the same as "ein bißchen". It looks weird for the learner.

Similar "jemanden zur Hand gehen" and "jemandem mit zur Hand gehen":

Natürlich sorgen wir auch für Ihr leibliches Wohl, indem wir beim Kochen mit zur Hand gehen und Ihnen beim Einnehmen der Mahlzeit gerne Gesellschaft leisten ...
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Doitsujin
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Re: German group

Postby Doitsujin » Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:50 pm

tungemål wrote:"jemandem etw an die Hand geben" is an expression that means to help someone. (an useful expression).
But I'm a bit confused about the "was mit" - is that the direct object? is "mit" short for "damit"? or is "was mit" equal to "damit"?
It doesn't make sense in terms of grammar to me either. I like your theory of "mit" as a shortened form of "damit." Maybe "mit" is here also used in the sense of "zusätzlich."
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Le Baron
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Re: German group

Postby Le Baron » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:37 am

It seems to me 'mit' here (in that unit mit an die Hand geben) functions as 'by'; as in: by giving you a hand.

I hope that by giving you a hand I was able to provide you with a little something (ein bißchen was).
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Doitsujin
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Re: German group

Postby Doitsujin » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:30 am

Le Baron wrote:It seems to me 'mit' here (in that unit mit an die Hand geben) functions as 'by'; as in: by giving you a hand
That's an interesting theory, but by giving you a hand would almost always be translated as "indem ich Dir/Ihnen zur Hand gehe."

I'm pretty sure that this redundant "mit" usage is just a regional, non-standard variation. When you search for zur Hand gehen on Glosbe not a single example of "mit zur Hand gehen" is shown. The same goes for an die Hand geben and Linguee shows similar results: zur Hand gehen and an die Hand geben.
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tungemål
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Re: German group

Postby tungemål » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:12 am

Le Baron wrote:It seems to me 'mit' here (in that unit mit an die Hand geben) functions as 'by'; as in: by giving you a hand.

I hope that by giving you a hand I was able to provide you with a little something (ein bißchen was).

Yes, but an die Hand geben wouldn't be equivalent to giving a hand, but to give something in the hand. To be grammatical I feel mit should come before: it should have been "mit etwas an die Hand geben".
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Le Baron
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Re: German group

Postby Le Baron » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:06 pm

Doitsujin wrote:
Le Baron wrote:It seems to me 'mit' here (in that unit mit an die Hand geben) functions as 'by'; as in: by giving you a hand
That's an interesting theory, but by giving you a hand would almost always be translated as "indem ich Dir/Ihnen zur Hand gehe."

I'm pretty sure that this redundant "mit" usage is just a regional, non-standard variation. When you search for zur Hand gehen on Glosbe not a single example of "mit zur Hand gehen" is shown. The same goes for an die Hand geben and Linguee shows similar results: zur Hand gehen and an die Hand geben.

Is there no difference made between giving a hand literally and figuratively as in assisting someone?
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tiia
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Re: German group

Postby tiia » Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:48 pm

Le Baron wrote:
Doitsujin wrote:
Le Baron wrote:It seems to me 'mit' here (in that unit mit an die Hand geben) functions as 'by'; as in: by giving you a hand
That's an interesting theory, but by giving you a hand would almost always be translated as "indem ich Dir/Ihnen zur Hand gehe."

I'm pretty sure that this redundant "mit" usage is just a regional, non-standard variation. When you search for zur Hand gehen on Glosbe not a single example of "mit zur Hand gehen" is shown. The same goes for an die Hand geben and Linguee shows similar results: zur Hand gehen and an die Hand geben.

Is there no difference made between giving a hand literally and figuratively as in assisting someone?

about the "mit": I just thought a little bit and I'd say that mit may actually come from the word "mitgeben". The word "mitgehen" exists too, but has quite a different meaning and therefore cannot be used in this context. It's more like following, going with someone together to some place, which is quite different from helping/assisting.
Instead "mitgeben" and "geben" still mean pretty much the same thing and are therefore in this context exchangable. The version with "mit" for "mit an die Hand geben" is definitely widely used. (Try a google search ;) )
Wortbedeutung.info reminded me also about "mit auf den Weg geben", which has pretty much the same meaning as "(mit) an die Hand geben": You're giving someone something they can take with them and continue their journey. They can decide how to use the advice/tool later on. I'd definitely accept a version without "mit" here - "auf den Weg geben". Still means the same and sounds fine to me.

If you want to have a literal meaning there's "jemanden die Hand geben" (more like shaking hands) or "jemandem etwas in die Hand geben" (putting something into someones hand)
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Kraut
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Re: German group

Postby Kraut » Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:19 pm

learning languages as an adult
radio podcast
14-pages of transcript


file:///C:/Users/ls/Downloads/swr2-wissen-230311-1.pdf

SWR2 Wissen
It’s never too late – Wie Erwachsene neue Sprachen lernen
Von Christoph Drösser
Sendung vom: Samstag, 11. März 2023, 8:30 Uhr

Chinesisch, Spanisch, Türkisch: Erwachsene tun sich erheblich schwerer als Kinder mit dem Erlernen von Fremdsprachen. Doch es geht: Entscheidend ist die Motivation.
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tastyonions
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Re: German group

Postby tastyonions » Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:40 pm

Kraut wrote:learning languages as an adult
radio podcast
14-pages of transcript


file:///C:/Users/ls/Downloads/swr2-wissen-230311-1.pdf

SWR2 Wissen
It’s never too late – Wie Erwachsene neue Sprachen lernen
Von Christoph Drösser
Sendung vom: Samstag, 11. März 2023, 8:30 Uhr

Chinesisch, Spanisch, Türkisch: Erwachsene tun sich erheblich schwerer als Kinder mit dem Erlernen von Fremdsprachen. Doch es geht: Entscheidend ist die Motivation.

Nice one, thanks for that. Here are the links for anyone else interested:

Page: https://www.swr.de/swr2/wissen/its-neve ... 1-102.html
Audio link: https://avdlswr-a.akamaihd.net/swr/swr2 ... rnen.m.mp3
Transcript: https://www.swr.de/swr2/wissen/its-neve ... 11-104.pdf
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CarlyD
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Re: German group

Postby CarlyD » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:03 pm

Can anyone recommend a good German/English dictionary? For some reason, my current German teacher keeps using words that are not in the dictionary. I don't mean verb tenses that you have to play guess-the-infinitive, but mostly nouns.

I have a couple of dictionaries now, that say "Compact" or "Concise" and they're not enough. I have a huge unabridged one but it's truly a hassle to drag it out and I don't have room for it to sit out on my desk all the time. Someone gave me one by a German publisher that was a good size and it turned out it was for someone who spoke German and was learning English, and there were no genders or parts of speech on any of the German entries.
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