Spanish Group

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:41 pm

I feel really bad for you, Fatih, but I am glad to hear you recovered and are ready to return to studying Spanish.
Perhaps you know and have read about the studying that member PeterMollenburg does in French. It might be worth your while to read his log and see how he studies. Obviously, you won't be doing anything in French, but the general steps he takes might help. Here is one entry from his log that gives a general view of what he does: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 348#p81348
Clearly, he does more than just trying to L/R a text.

Also member Smallwhite took the C1 test for French, and I believe member Cavesa passed the same test. There may be some pointers in their logs.

You don't say what or how you studied before you took the B2 exam. Can you fill us in a bit on that, both on what you study and how much time you devote to it?

Edited one time.
2 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

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smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby smallwhite » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:47 am

I don't have a log. I suggest finishing studying what's in the syllabus before taking an exam.
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Dialang or it didn't happen.

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smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby smallwhite » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:55 am

Fatih wrote:... but reading really shocked me.

I noticed in your log that you read Harry Potter as one of your first novels, which is the same as what I did, so I thought I'd write a bit more.

I was comfortable in French (and English) when I started Spanish, with C1 in reading, maximum score.

I studied 6000 vocabulary flashcards L1>L2 during my first 8 months of Spanish. Words from textbooks, thematic word lists. I read my first novel, Da Vinci Code, in month 9. I looked up every unknown word and memorised them with Memrise L2>L1. I averaged 2 - 2.5 hours of study per day and scored C1 in online tests after 350 days of Spanish.

The prologue of Da Vinci Code was very complicated and unexpected, and I didn't understand it without dictionary. Then Chapter 1 was an everyday scene, and I more or less understood it without dictionary. Average known words for the first 3 chapters was 96.1%. With my dictionary-Memrise routine, known words rose to 98.2% by page 106 of 502. All of that happened within one calendar week.

You said you "encountered 60 unknown words in 3 pages" of Harry Potter II. I read Harry Potter I (which might be easier than book II) right after the 106 pages of Da Vinci Code above. There were 29 unknown words on pages 1 to 3. I did my dictionary-Memrise routine again until page 50. There were 17 unknown words on pages 47 to 49. Known words rose to 98.3%. All of that happened from late August to 4th September.

Basically I started with flashcards then memorised everything I encountered. I also love grammar. I've noticed that many members who read a lot don't do very well, not even in reading, so you're not alone.
Last edited by smallwhite on Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dialang or it didn't happen.

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reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby reineke » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:46 pm

Fatih wrote:I've got the results of my B2 exam 2 weeks ago and that was not good. I was expecting to get poor results from writing but reading really shocked me. I got disappointed and it took me 10 days to digest it but now I restarted everything again. I started reading juego de tronos, actually trying to do L-R but I’m not sure whether it’s right for me because it really makes reading tedious and slow. My medium-term objective is to pass C1 exam, hopefully before May 2018. Considering my B2 results what dou you think I should do? I’d greatly appreciate any advice.


Hello. You scraped by on the oral/listening comprehension part of the exam. You don't want to focus on the reading portion and then fail the other parts of the exam. I think you should practice all the four skills. Listening/oral proficiency will help you with reading and vice-versa reading will boost your vocabulary. Choose something easier. Harry Potter - I don't care for it so I don't have a good idea if it's a good first, second or third book. El Codigo looks easy enough. If you are interested in a particular book, read the Amazon reviews by English speakers. "Harold" wrote that the Da Vinci Code was "FACIL DE LEER" (in caps). American pulp is usually easier to read than many native novels. Spanish has tons of content. You can try with bilingual readers and easy readers.
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Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby Cavesa » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:28 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Also member Smallwhite took the C1 test for French, and I believe member Cavesa passed the same test. There may be some pointers in their logs.


I took DELF B2 in 2010 and barely passed (barely means one point less, and I would have failed), so I definitely understand the disappointment. I took DALF C2 in 2015 and passed with a solid score. Not a stellar one, but very good in the oral part, and sufficient in the written part. In Spanish, I have yet to study for an exam, I am somewhere around B2, with much stronger passive skills. I have passed one C1 exam, the CAE, but the format of that was very different.

The lessons I learnt during the journey:

1. Extensive listening is absolutely awesome. But the key is to do a lot of it. A few hundred hours and you'll safely within the C1 or C2 level. It will help a lot with speaking too. But the key was just staying immersed for a few hours at once and later even one episode, but the initial obsessive sessions "just one more and I'll go to sleep" till 2am were awesome. Before my DALF C2, I had already spent like 250 hours with tv series, and read about 12000 pages of fiction (not counting in news, magazines, and other minority stuff).

2.Never underestimate the grammar. People will tell you how the modern exams and cefr are not about grammar, how it is not being tested, how the important things are the real four skills. Yeah, that's cute. Of course making grammar mistakes takes some points away. Of course it makes a bad impression. It is not the main part of the exam, but losing points on grammar is a waste. The main difference between B1 and B2 is the quality of the production, not only whether you get the message across, the C levels are about fewer and fewer mistakes being tolerated, about more and more nuances being included. How would one include such nuances and details without knowing the grammar well? Study the grammar and you'll be able to lose points elsewhere and still pass. Looking at your score in the active skills, it was probably one of the issues. Perhaps not the main one, but still on the list.

3.Never underestimate the vocabulary. Again, people will tell you it is not important and that you should know fewer words well and not worry about more words (I remember a very adamant forum member). Guess what: in order to use the appropriate vocabulary, which is definitely being expected above the level B1, you need a large pool to draw from. Using too basic vocabulary, and repeatedly, is a red flag to some examiners. Work on it. You can get it from extensive reading and listening (that was my main source before the DALF C2 actually), you can help the process with SRS (the +Spanish courses on Memrise are good), you can go through a dictionary,you can make wordslists and so on. I don't know what way is the best for you. But the issue needs to be addressed. Grammar is easier in the passive skills, vocab is crutial everywhere.

4.If you want, get a tutor, but don't settle for bad ones. Take only experienced ones and remember that they are still much less important than self study. Be clear about what you need, don't let them waste time on other stuff. Never forget you are the responsible one. And insist on the people telling you how many people they have prepared for the exam before you and what were the results.

5.Did you use preparatory books? It is possible to pass such an exam without them (my DELF B2 and CAE) but it is a stupid decision not to use them, trust me. The format of the exam and the usual types of assignments are important. In the ideal world, people would go to the exams without this preparation. And the exams would reflect our skills more precisely. But we are in the real world, where the price of a failed attempt is quite high, and where we are being compared to people who have been drilling the model tasks over and over again.

6.What are you reading? and listening to? Perhaps you need to diversify. An example: Many people underestimate the scientific language as something they won't ever need. Wrong. The language exams are reflecting the language used by language that have gone through some education. A normal person is able to discuss a new power plant or cancer treatment in basic terms with their friends in a pub, they don't need a degree for it. So should you. The Cervantes library in Prague underestimates it too ("But there is no demand for such stuff" yeah , and what about all the science and medicine students going to Spain for Erasmus or to Latin America? What about the international teams and all the Spanish written science?). Read popular science magazines. At least a few, the basic subjects get regurgitated over and over. Sci-fi is great. Eureka was awesome for my French listening skills and scientific vocab, perhaps the Spanish dubbing will be good too? Otherwise, the Rtve has lots of stuff. Try to identify any such lacunes. It may be politics, where a lot of country specific terms may be included and make you shine. It may be cooking, or sports. I had a sport themed task in my CAE, and I think I lost some points there :-D

7.Make time for writing. This is something I regretted as my writing score in DALF was not that great. But I had had no choice, as I had already been taking the preparation time from my microbiology time (I was happy to. But I was definitely nervous at the micro exam :-D ). At first, try to make as awesome texts as possible. Reread them after yourself. Read it again a day later, you'll spot a lot of stuff with the fresh eyes. A week later. If you can, get feedback, but not before these phases, you'll be wasting your money. As the exam draws closer, try to write within the timeframe. Was that difficult during your exam? I must admit it was very difficult for me, the quality of my writing went definitely down in the last quarter of the text. Practice writing the right length of text, and to make the structure reasonable (like having included half the information in the first half of the text, instead of finding out five lines and ten minutes before the end that you forgot the key points). Practice the usual assignment tasks, especially those very distant from reality (such as having to write a few hundred words about an issue you and anyone normal would usually write three sentences about.)

8.There are good quality resources on the internet, use them. The problem at the higher levels are always the resources. But still, don't settle for crap. There are good blogs about DELE writing, I've found a few. There is a lot of such stuff, but it requires some searching.

I hope this helps a bit.
10 x

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reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby reineke » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:28 pm

You may find useful information here:

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 5&start=10
1 x

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smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby smallwhite » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:38 am

El Instituto Cervantes' syllabus, sample section:

Nociones generales > Nociones cuantitativas > Cantidad numérica > Proporción

B1
* la mitad, el doble, un cuarto, un tercio
la mitad de los adultos
un tercio de los jóvenes

B2
* proporción, porción
una porción de queso

Can't get any more detailed than that.
2 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

Tillumadoguenirurm
Orange Belt
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 3:07 pm
Languages: English
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby Tillumadoguenirurm » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:40 am

If anyone get tired of reading depressing news, http://www.elmundotoday.com is described as a castellano version of "The Onion ".

(Still depressing but slightly different).
3 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:28 pm

Tillumadoguenirurm wrote:If anyone get tired of reading depressing news, http://www.elmundotoday.com is described as a castellano version of "The Onion ".

(Still depressing but slightly different).

The story about how CNN used photos of Murcia made me laugh out loud. Thanks for sharing a bit of relief.
1 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

DaveBee
Blue Belt
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:49 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (native). French (studying).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7466
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Re: Spanish Group

Postby DaveBee » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:41 pm

Bouncing around YouTube for different versions of my New Favourite Song, I came across a version prepared for spanish language learners: Me gustas tú (edited for Spanish Class)
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