Team Middle East

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Location: Australia
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:39 pm

Two questions, for anyone experienced or not.

1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

(eg can it be done, positives/neg’s, your experience if attempted, time/investment of self required, should dialect be avoided initially or MSA avoided in the beginning, etc)

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2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?

This is a bit vague, so say what comes to mind in your experience with learning Arabic or your judgements if you have not studied it based on whatever it may be. What’s good progress? You tell me, I’m really looking to open a bit more discussion here on endeavouring to learn Arabic from scratch. What’s it take. If you want a level, I’ll say B2, but that’s not strict for the purpose of creating some discussion.
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I’ve read quite a bit already on the above, but just wondering if ppl here have an opinion.
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ancient forest
White Belt
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:13 am
Location: U.S.A.
Languages: English (N), Classical and Standard Arabic (advanced), Levantine Arabic (low-intermediate)
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby ancient forest » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

Some purists to Classical Arabic would be totally against the idea of studying both at the same time. They would first want the person to master Classical Arabic so that it does not mix with the dialect. Yet, if such a student were to take a taxi without any knowledge of the local dialect or modern usage, he might say something to the taxi driver in the equivalent of: "Indeed, I desire to hasten to thy vicinity's marketplace."

I am not necessarily against learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but I think that there are different goals in learning Arabic such as reading the newspaper/speaking in MSA, researching Classical texts, speaking a dialect fluently, etc. These goals are almost different skill sets, and mastering all of them is really what takes Arabic so long to learn. If one focuses on a particular goal, it will not take nearly as long to learn Arabic. So, I don't see a problem in learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but if you focus on one particular goal and perhaps do a bit of enrichment in other areas, you will see faster improvement towards your goal.

PeterMollenburg wrote:2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?
I'm not sure.
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Arabic
: 6 / 50 Speaking Arabic: A Course in Conversational Eastern Arabic

Ghalib Al-Hakkak
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:35 pm
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ghalib Al-Hakkak » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:45 pm

I am the author of "Manuel d'arabe en ligne". I would like to mention here the link to the English version for the first seven chapters: https://www.al-hakkak.fr/PDF/Arabic-Mad ... Effort.pdf

It is available on Amazon with two volumes:
Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 651&sr=1-6
Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 50&sr=1-12

Till now I worked on the translation of 14 chapters with Alexander Sethi. I still hope to have some feedback about these first volumes.
Thank you

G H
10 x

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:58 am

Ghalib Al-Hakkak wrote:I am the author of "Manuel d'arabe en ligne". I would like to mention here the link to the English version for the first seven chapters: https://www.al-hakkak.fr/PDF/Arabic-Mad ... Effort.pdf

It is available on Amazon with two volumes:
Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 651&sr=1-6
Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 50&sr=1-12

Till now I worked on the translation of 14 chapters with Alexander Sethi. I still hope to have some feedback about these first volumes.
Thank you

G H


That’s excellent, thank you, G H. It’s nice to have an author of quality language courses stop by :)

I’m sure there are a number of people who will appreciate this, as do I myself. Merci encore.

Kind regards,
PM
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Ogrim
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:51 pm

Ghalib Al-Hakkak wrote:I am the author of "Manuel d'arabe en ligne". I would like to mention here the link to the English version for the first seven chapters: https://www.al-hakkak.fr/PDF/Arabic-Mad ... Effort.pdf

It is available on Amazon with two volumes:
Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 651&sr=1-6
Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Made-Easy ... 50&sr=1-12

Till now I worked on the translation of 14 chapters with Alexander Sethi. I still hope to have some feedback about these first volumes.
Thank you

G H


Thank you very much. I am very tempted to buy this course now, although probably the French version of it.

Oh, and I totally agree with your approach not to use transcription into Latin characters.
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Ich grolle nicht

Ghalib Al-Hakkak
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:35 pm
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ghalib Al-Hakkak » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:58 am

Hello,

I would like to mention what I did with Quizlet. You can find here : http://www.al-hakkak.fr/Quizlet-anglais.html

And you can find more ressources when visiting my site : https://www.al-hakkak.fr

Ghalib Al-Hakkak
3 x

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Ogrim
Blue Belt
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:13 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Two questions, for anyone experienced or not.

1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

(eg can it be done, positives/neg’s, your experience if attempted, time/investment of self required, should dialect be avoided initially or MSA avoided in the beginning, etc)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?

This is a bit vague, so say what comes to mind in your experience with learning Arabic or your judgements if you have not studied it based on whatever it may be. What’s good progress? You tell me, I’m really looking to open a bit more discussion here on endeavouring to learn Arabic from scratch. What’s it take. If you want a level, I’ll say B2, but that’s not strict for the purpose of creating some discussion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I’ve read quite a bit already on the above, but just wondering if ppl here have an opinion.


Ancient forest gave a really good answer to the first question, so I won't go much into that. My Langenscheidt course has recordings of the dialogues in MSA, Egyptian and Syrian dialects, but I prefer to focus only on MSA. Now if I were to go and live in an Arab speaking country, I would probably be tempted to dive into the local dialect, but not without a minimum base in MSA, at least I would learn the script first.

On your second question, from my own experience I would say: as much as you can. Seriously though, I think it is more important to be consistent and try to do at least something every day. One mistake I've made is to have bouts of activity where I could spend maybe 5 to 8 hours over a weekend, but then not open my course book again until the following Thursday. If you manage to study effectively at least an hour a day, seven days a week, you should be able to progress well. The script will take a bit of time to get used to, but it is not as hard as it may seem, it is a question of practice.
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Ich grolle nicht

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=784
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:44 am

ancient forest wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:1. Any thoughts on learning MSA and an Arabic dialect at the same time?

Some purists to Classical Arabic would be totally against the idea of studying both at the same time. They would first want the person to master Classical Arabic so that it does not mix with the dialect. Yet, if such a student were to take a taxi without any knowledge of the local dialect or modern usage, he might say something to the taxi driver in the equivalent of: "Indeed, I desire to hasten to thy vicinity's marketplace."

I am not necessarily against learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but I think that there are different goals in learning Arabic such as reading the newspaper/speaking in MSA, researching Classical texts, speaking a dialect fluently, etc. These goals are almost different skill sets, and mastering all of them is really what takes Arabic so long to learn. If one focuses on a particular goal, it will not take nearly as long to learn Arabic. So, I don't see a problem in learning MSA and a dialect at the same time, but if you focus on one particular goal and perhaps do a bit of enrichment in other areas, you will see faster improvement towards your goal.

PeterMollenburg wrote:2. How much time do you believe is necessary on a daily basis to see good progress in Arabic?
I'm not sure.


Thank you for the feedback ancient forest. Sounds logical your conclusion on the matter.

Ogrim wrote:Ancient forest gave a really good answer to the first question, so I won't go much into that. My Langenscheidt course has recordings of the dialogues in MSA, Egyptian and Syrian dialects, but I prefer to focus only on MSA. Now if I were to go and live in an Arab speaking country, I would probably be tempted to dive into the local dialect, but not without a minimum base in MSA, at least I would learn the script first.

On your second question, from my own experience I would say: as much as you can. Seriously though, I think it is more important to be consistent and try to do at least something every day. One mistake I've made is to have bouts of activity where I could spend maybe 5 to 8 hours over a weekend, but then not open my course book again until the following Thursday. If you manage to study effectively at least an hour a day, seven days a week, you should be able to progress well. The script will take a bit of time to get used to, but it is not as hard as it may seem, it is a question of practice.


Thanks Ogrim. It seems that, while wanting to learn an Arabic dialect, whether simutaneously or not, beginning with MSA solely sounds like a wise idea. So it is now my intention to start with an MSA course perhaps solely and perhaps up until arrival in Riyadh when I’m likely to choose the FSI or DLI Saudi Arabic course and do it simultaneously alongside the MSA course (I’ve chosen Ghalib Al-Hakkak‘s Manuel d’arabe), provided I have sufficient time. And yes, consistent, regular study also sounds wise. Je te remercie, Ogrim.
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shandra
Orange Belt
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby shandra » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:05 am

Hi everyone!

You've fed my curiosity about Arabic in general, so I've leafed through a book for beginners (Mastering Arabic by Wightwick and Gaafar).

I find the Arabic script extremely fascinating, but really intimidating.

Just to say, I've never had problems with ideograms: I recognize the main radicals and rapidly write the given kanji/hanzi in my notebook.

But Arabic looks so alien, despite been an alphabet. And not having vowels marked makes me feel hopeless, how one can read correctly new words in a sentence?

I'm worried more for the script than for grammar :?

(Sorry for this break. I've read with pleasure all your contributions to the main topic :))
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ancient forest
White Belt
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:13 am
Location: U.S.A.
Languages: English (N), Classical and Standard Arabic (advanced), Levantine Arabic (low-intermediate)
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby ancient forest » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:59 am

shandra wrote:Hi everyone!

You've fed my curiosity about Arabic in general, so I've leafed through a book for beginners (Mastering Arabic by Wightwick and Gaafar).

I find the Arabic script extremely fascinating, but really intimidating.

Just to say, I've never had problems with ideograms: I recognize the main radicals and rapidly write the given kanji/hanzi in my notebook.

But Arabic looks so alien, despite been an alphabet. And not having vowels marked makes me feel hopeless, how one can read correctly new words in a sentence?

I'm worried more for the script than for grammar :?

(Sorry for this break. I've read with pleasure all your contributions to the main topic :))


My wife is learning Arabic and has been teaching the alphabet to some of her friends, so I asked her for a suggestion about materials for learning the alphabet and Arabic script. She recommended the YouTube video channel of Imran Alawiye called Gateway to Arabic Institute. In particular, she recommended the playlist 'Arabic from the Beginning.' I took a look at one of the videos, and it looks really helpful.
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Arabic
: 6 / 50 Speaking Arabic: A Course in Conversational Eastern Arabic


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