Team Middle East

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Maiwenn » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:11 pm

السلام عليكم!

I'd like to join the team! I am learning MSA and Moroccan Arabic. My MSA is somewhere in the basement of A1 and my Moroccan Arabic is a temperamental A2. ;) As seems to have also been the case with some of you, my learning process has had many fits and starts, though now I feel far enough along that I can see progress.

So that I'm not joining empty-handed, I thought I would include some of my favorite Arabic-language movies:

A peine j'ouvre les yeux/As I Open My Eyes/"على حلّة عيني"
(Tunisian Arabic) *** The first fifteen seconds of the trailer might be slightly inappropriate for work. You don't see anything, but I prefer to give the warning just in case.

A young Tunisian woman just wants to make music (with a certain amount of social commentary), but her family and society want her to do otherwise. Fantastic, original soundtrack sung by the lead actress.

Le Chanteur de Gaza/The Idol/"ياطير الطاير"
(Levantine Arabic and probably a bit of Egyptian as part of it takes place in Cairo)

A young man from Gaza carries out his sister's dream of singing.

Barakah meets Barakah/"بركة يقابل بركة"
(Saudi Arabic)

This trailer isn't great, so please trust me when I say this is a funny and thoughtful movie. It's on Netflix everywhere except the MENA regions.
5 x
SC reading: 3819 / 10000 AR
SC reading: 3334 / 5000 FR
SC reading: 65 / 2500 DE :?

Corrections are always welcome. :)

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Ogrim
Brown Belt
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Alsace, France
Languages: Norwegian (N) English (C2), French (C2), Spanish (C2), German (B2), Romansh (B2), Italian (B2), Catalan (B2), Russian (B1), Latin (B2), Dutch (B1), Croatian (A2), Arabic (on hold), Ancient Greek (learning), Romanian (on hold)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Welcome to the forum and to Team Middle East. As you can see the Team thread has not been very active lately, and I haven't seen any posting by Lady Grey, who started the thread, for a long time. Still there are a few of us around learning (or trying to learn) Arabic and/or other languages from the Middle East region. I've discovered your log as well, and will be following it with interest.

A question. How different is Moroccan Arabic to MSA? I've heard some people say it is practically a different language (comparable to Italian vs. French), but I would appreciate your view as you are learning both. (For the moment I have more than enough with just sticking to MSA.)
2 x
Ich grolle nicht

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Maiwenn
Orange Belt
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:26 am
Location: Grand Est, France
Languages: English (N) & French
focusing on: MSA & Moroccan Arabic
backburner: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7321
x 777

Re: Team Middle East

Postby Maiwenn » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:10 pm

Thanks for the welcome, Ogrim (or should I say جاري? since we seem to live in the same region)! I had noticed that the team had been a bit... quiet. Hopefully we can change that! :)

Italian/French might actually be an apt comparison for Moroccan Arabic/MSA, since they have a high lexical similarity. If you go to Morocco speaking MSA, certainly many people will understand you as much media is in MSA. Whether you would understand them is another question. Most of the vocabulary does come from classical Arabic, with additions from French and Spanish (a car can be سيارة or طوموبيل the latter coming from automobile --> at-tomoobiil) and Amazight (بْزاف = a lot, and you will hear this bzaaaf in Morocco (I'm preeetty sure this is from Amazight, really sorry if I'm wrong on that.)). To learn more about the linguistic history behind طوموبيل there is a great podcast on it (in English) here. Arabic-Arabic words' vowels often change (short vowels often disappear). For instance, my first time in Morocco, I asked for milk and said حَليب and was quickly corrected that I should say حْليب.

Grammatical numbers
There's (almost) no dual in Moroccan Arabic. It remains, vestigially, for time terms (days, months, years) and body parts that come in twos (ears, eyes, hands, feet).

Phonetic differences
The "v" and "p" sounds actually exist in Moroccan Arabic, so pizza is pizza and vanilla is vanilla/vanille. Interdentals often disappear: ثbecomesت so 3 is pronounced like tlaata, ذ becomes د so استاذ is sometimes written the same as MSA, but pronounced استاد.
ق and ج can be pronounced like "g" in certain words, some examples:
قالَ is instead pronounced like gal
جَلَسَ is instead pronounced like giliss (or gliss)

Pronouns
1st person singular: انا (same)
1st person plural: حنا
2nd person masculine singular: نْتَ (but can be written the same as in MSA)
2nd person feminine singular: نْتِ (but can be written the same as in MSA)
2nd person plural: نْتُما (but can be written with the alif)
3rd person masculine singular: هو (same)
3rd person feminine singular: هي (same)
3rd person plural: هُما

Some verbal differences
Here's a comparison of the "present tense" of in MSA and Moroccan Arabic
ْأَدْخُلُ كَنَدْخُل
انتَ تَدْخُلُ --> كَتَدْخُل
انتِ تَدْخُلينَ >-- كَتَدْخُلي
هو يَدْخُلُ >-- كَيَدْخُل
هي تَدْخُلُ <-- كَتَدْخُل
نحن نَدْخُلُ -- كَنَدْخُلوا
انتم تَدْخُلون -- كَتَدْخُلوا
هم يَدْخُلون -- كَيَدْخُلوا

The present tense may also begin by t- depending on the speaker (تَنَدْخُل rather than كَنَدْخُل). The k/t disappears if the verb is being used after another verb or certain other markers, such as the future marker.

The future marker is "غادي" or "غَ" rather than "سوف" or "س". Like in MSA, these words are applied to the present tense to create the future tense. I will enter is therefore غادي نَدْخُل or غَنَدْخُل.

Question word differences (a couple examples)
Instead of "ما", Moroccan Arabic has "آش", "أشْنو", and "شْنو".
Instead of "هل", Moroccan Arabic has "وَاش".

Negation differences
With verbs, Moroccan Arabic has taken on a French style negation system. ma- precedes the verb and -sh proceeds it.
I do not enter is: مَنَدْخُلْشْ

There's... obviously a lot more. Sorry this is a bit rambly. I'll try to write more about this in my log/here. :) It's a question that interests me and -- as a former linguistics student -- I ought to be a bit more thorough in my analysis.
6 x
SC reading: 3819 / 10000 AR
SC reading: 3334 / 5000 FR
SC reading: 65 / 2500 DE :?

Corrections are always welcome. :)

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Ogrim
Brown Belt
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Alsace, France
Languages: Norwegian (N) English (C2), French (C2), Spanish (C2), German (B2), Romansh (B2), Italian (B2), Catalan (B2), Russian (B1), Latin (B2), Dutch (B1), Croatian (A2), Arabic (on hold), Ancient Greek (learning), Romanian (on hold)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:18 am

Thank you Maiwenn for that detailed explanation. Really interesting. For the time being I'll just stick to MSA, but I've already given a thought to what dialect I would learn, if any. My primary aim is to get to a level where I can passively understand written Arabic and get some meaning out of listening to e.g. Aljazeera or France 24 arabe. And as I don't have any particular reason for picking one dialect over the other, the choice is difficult. Morrocan or Algerian Arabic is tempting, but so is Levantine or Gulf Arabic.

Thanks for the word جاري, I had not come across it so far. Yes, it seems we both live in 's scheen Elsàss as I believe they would say in Alsatian, which kind of makes us Noochber. And no, I do not speak Aslatian, just been picking up a few words and expressions from colleagues and neighbours. :)
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Ich grolle nicht

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Ogrim
Brown Belt
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Alsace, France
Languages: Norwegian (N) English (C2), French (C2), Spanish (C2), German (B2), Romansh (B2), Italian (B2), Catalan (B2), Russian (B1), Latin (B2), Dutch (B1), Croatian (A2), Arabic (on hold), Ancient Greek (learning), Romanian (on hold)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
x 4169

Re: Team Middle East

Postby Ogrim » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 pm

For you Arabic learners out there, I just wanted to draw your attention to the Youtube channel of the record company Awakening Records. Many of their videoclips have the Arabic lyrics, and by going to parametres you can choose translations of the lyrics into English, French, Spanish, Urdu, Malaysian or Russian(!).

Here is an example, a song by the singer Humood (حمود الخضر), a song called "Smile" (اضحك).

1 x
Ich grolle nicht

geoffw
Orange Belt
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:15 pm
Languages: Speak well = English (N), Deutsch
Speak poorly = יידיש (Yiddish), Français
"Speak," I guess = עברית (Hebrew), Русский (Russian), Español, Nederlands, Esperanto
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby geoffw » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:48 pm

It's that time when people are taking stock of the past year, so here's my quick update. I spent most of the year neglecting Hebrew for various reasons, but I'm on pace now, at a lesson a day, to finally finish Assimil Hebrew on the very last day of the year. I've had lots of success in other languages (mainly Russian) reading with the assistance of Lingq, but I still haven't been able to find much in the way of content in a portable electronic format to use for Hebrew, and that's really slowing down my progress. The best I've been able to do is to snag the preview chapter from a few ebooks and plow through that. I also have the old Assimil Hebrew course, which looks to have more total content, so I may try that out next year.

Diving into Arabic continues to become more and more tempting, but like every winter break, I'm currently spread far too thin studying several different languages to maintain this pace after the new year (I'm currently putting serious acquisition/maintenance work into Hebrew, Russian, Polish, Armenian, *and* Chinese, as well as practicing German and French), and Arabic hasn't gotten more than two or three hours of attention so far. I'll probably stick to Hebrew for now, on the theory that I'm also building the background for some vocabulary and grammar transfer later (and because the people in my community and family speak Hebrew and/or Russian, not Arabic). If and when Duolingo comes out with their Arabic course, that may change the calculus, however. (Their new Chinese course certainly managed to get my full attention.)

What do people think about the future of this thread? Do we want a new thread? An "official" reboot of this thread? Or is the interest not there anymore?
2 x

ancient forest
White Belt
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:13 am
Location: U.S.A.
Languages: English (N), Classical and Standard Arabic (advanced), Levantine Arabic (low-intermediate)
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby ancient forest » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:56 pm

I would like to continue with the Middle East team as well. Each year I try to get my head around learning a colloquial dialect, but I never really make the progress that I would like - mostly because I do not get enough practice with native speakers. This year, I would like to primarily focus on learning Media Arabic, but now that I have moved to a larger city, hopefully there will be more chances to practice speaking colloquial Arabic. Also, there are a lot of Spanish speakers in my city, and I have made up my mind to put more effort into Spanish.
2 x
Arabic
: 6 / 50 Speaking Arabic: A Course in Conversational Eastern Arabic

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Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA (4/3); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (Latinum Bavaricum); GRC (Graecum Bavaricum); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (Hebraicum); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); FAS (still a raw beginner)
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Systematiker » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:20 am

I'm up for continuing, and I'm still around and dealing with Hebrew. Mostly ancient, with continual flirtations into modern. It's something I'll never give up, so I'll at a minimum always be around to procrastinate about it :D
1 x

S7R
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Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:25 pm
Languages: Arabic (N), English, Turkish (beginner)
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby S7R » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Hi guys
Since I am a native Arabic speaker, I would like to help you guys with some sources
I don't know if you knew it before or not!
Aljazeera website
http://learning.aljazeera.net/en/genera ... l/beginner
and Almadinah arabic website
https://www.madinaharabic.com/
I hope you find it useful, and I am pleased to offer any help with Arabic language. :)
Good luck everyone.
0 x

Monox D. I-Fly
Blue Belt
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:22 pm
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Re: Team Middle East

Postby Monox D. I-Fly » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:58 pm

S7R wrote:Hi guys
and Almadinah arabic website
https://www.madinaharabic.com/
I hope you find it useful, and I am pleased to offer any help with Arabic language. :)
Good luck everyone.


Back then I visited that site quite often, but now its forum is on maintenance.
By the way, I am surprised that my name isn't in the member list yet. Please count me in.
0 x
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