Team Nordic [study and support group]

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
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Systematiker
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby Systematiker » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:52 am

Elenia wrote:It's a new year! What are your goals with your Nordic languages?


I'm hoping to put some serious effort into Swedish here in the first part of the year, and get some better productive skills, and then continue from there by beginning to read some literary works (and finally shelling out to get things I want). I'd love to do more listening and watching, but that's a later-in-the-year goal due to some other constraints. I'm finding more opportunity to use Swedish as time goes on, so its share of my life is growing. Oh, and I hope to catch up on På Spåret, but who knows.

I probably won't do much with Danish until the Spring, when I'd like to begin doing some similar reading. I don't have any plans for output in Danish this year. So I will probably stick with my occasional podcasts and get some reading in later on.

I've forgotten the minuscule amount of Finnish I learned, and don't really plan on trying again, so...yeah.
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cathrynm
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby cathrynm » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:16 am

Hey guys. Am I not in 'Team Nordic'? I lose track, really over the years.

After JLPT N3 this December, I find myself back at clozemaster.com, poking away on the Finnish sentences. Starting to ramp up on that again, I'm feeling.

https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=721
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cathrynm
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby cathrynm » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:03 am

I'll post this one just to warm up the board a little.

Asiat lähtivät täysin lapasesta.

Translation to:Things got out of hand.
Or I think more literally "Things slipped completely out of the mittens."
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Elenia
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Finnish?!
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby Elenia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:41 am

Systematiker wrote:I'm hoping to put some serious effort into Swedish here in the first part of the year, and get some better productive skills


Of course! The Swedish FSI work! I'd forgotten completely about that :?

cathrynm wrote:I'll post this one just to warm up the board a little.

Asiat lähtivät täysin lapasesta.

Translation to:Things got out of hand.
Or I think more literally "Things slipped completely out of the mittens."


I've added your name and log to the first post :) And I love that phrase! I think I definitely need to listen to more Finnish - I still have basically no idea how it ought to sound.
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tiia
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby tiia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:43 am

Do you have recommendations for (printed) Swedish dictionaries?
So far this looked like the best one I could get around here from 2015: click. But it's quite expensive. The equivalent in Spanish from the same publisher would cost about half the price .
However, there's an older version of the same dictionary from 1997: click.
Does anyone know how much the language changed in between? What about words for technical devices? What other words changed in between? How many words are nowadays subtituted by a synonym?

Or do you have other recommendations? (E.g. I didn't look what PONS has for Swedish.)

My other criteria are:
1. Including hints for pronounciation. IPA or based on a language like German or Finnish. No English description of the sounds like "eew" or "wah" etc.
2. German based, if possible. (And for Swedish I expect it to be possible.)
3. Affordable price. I'd say the maximum is 20€ for now. I don't know how long I will keep going with Swedish, so at the moment I don't have the desire to spend more money on it than necessary.

The dictionary above is supposed to have around 85000 headwords. But also a smaller or larger one is ok, if it meets the criteria.


I might even get along with a nice pdf with words in alphabetical order, that I could just print out. The amount of words could be reduced in that case. But even then the pronounciation should be written down somehow.
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Expugnator
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby Expugnator » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:40 pm

I'm hoping to finally reach a solid B2 in Norwegian so that I can dabble in Swedish at last, but I'm not sure it will happen because I don't have anything planned for leaving my comfort zone in Norwegian.
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Stefan
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby Stefan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:07 pm

tiia wrote:Do you have recommendations for (printed) Swedish dictionaries? Does anyone know how much the language changed in between? What about words for technical devices? What other words changed in between? How many words are nowadays subtituted by a synonym? Or do you have other recommendations? (E.g. I didn't look what PONS has for Swedish.)

I doubt there's a huge difference. Most new words I know about are either plain English (smartphone / app / selfie) or Swedish translations of English words (username -> användarnamn, cookies -> kakor). Your knowledge of English and German will probably take you a long way at those rare times.

One option if you want to spend as little as possible, would be to get the 1997 edition for €6 used on Amazon and then combine it with updated word lists. SAOL publishes a list every year covering "new words" and you'll find all of them on their site going back to year 2000. Datatermgruppen keeps an updated list on their site with all recommended computer terms.

A word of caution about SAOL though. Some of the words never take off (difficult to predict the future) and some have probably never been used in real life. studsmattesjuka and rugbyförälder. Seriously? It wouldn't hurt to do a quick search to make sure that each word is mentioned in other sentences than when newspapers publish the yearly SAOL list.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:00 pm

tiia wrote:Do you have recommendations for (printed) Swedish dictionaries?


jeff_lindqvist wrote:This will probably work as an offline resource - Svenska språknämndens uttalsordbok 67 000 ord i svenskan och deras uttal (by Claes Garlén).

"Uttalsuppgifterna anges med det internationella fonetiska alfabetet, IPA. Ordboken blir på så sätt mer användbar utomlands än om något annat, svenskt, system hade använts. IPA är också det system som normalt används i läromedel för t.ex. engelska, franska och tyska, liksom i de flesta större ordböcker."

... which means that IPA is used.


(I quoted myself)
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tiia
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby tiia » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:33 pm

Stefan wrote:
tiia wrote:Do you have recommendations for (printed) Swedish dictionaries? Does anyone know how much the language changed in between? What about words for technical devices? What other words changed in between? How many words are nowadays subtituted by a synonym? Or do you have other recommendations? (E.g. I didn't look what PONS has for Swedish.)

I doubt there's a huge difference. Most new words I know about are either plain English (smartphone / app / selfie) or Swedish translations of English words (username -> användarnamn, cookies -> kakor). Your knowledge of English and German will probably take you a long way at those rare times.

One option if you want to spend as little as possible, would be to get the 1997 edition for €6 used on Amazon and then combine it with updated word lists. SAOL publishes a list every year covering "new words" and you'll find all of them on their site going back to year 2000. Datatermgruppen keeps an updated list on their site with all recommended computer terms.

A word of caution about SAOL though. Some of the words never take off (difficult to predict the future) and some have probably never been used in real life. studsmattesjuka and rugbyförälder. Seriously? It wouldn't hurt to do a quick search to make sure that each word is mentioned in other sentences than when newspapers publish the yearly SAOL list.

Thanks for the lists. I may find out how I can make a single, alphabetical list out of those 17 seperate ones.
In German there are similar new words added each year, with the same issue, that you never know which ones will be the relevant ones. Although relevant ones are usually somehow known by natives before they're added.

How much the (Swedish) language changes is just an aspect I don't know as the very beginner that I still am. I've only heard about adding "hen", because that got some attention in the media even outside of Sweden.

Plus, I have a small German-Finnish-German pocket dictionary from 1999. There are a few entries that just show it's a bit older, e.g. the word for sister: From the German Schwester I only get the translation sisar. But nowadays the more common word is actually sisko. However, you find the word sisko in the Finnish-to-German part of the dictionary.
Anyways, in most cases this hasn't been a problem, and I'm still using it every now and then as it's a nice, small and robust dictionary to take around.

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
tiia wrote:Do you have recommendations for (printed) Swedish dictionaries?


jeff_lindqvist wrote:This will probably work as an offline resource - Svenska språknämndens uttalsordbok 67 000 ord i svenskan och deras uttal (by Claes Garlén).

"Uttalsuppgifterna anges med det internationella fonetiska alfabetet, IPA. Ordboken blir på så sätt mer användbar utomlands än om något annat, svenskt, system hade använts. IPA är också det system som normalt används i läromedel för t.ex. engelska, franska och tyska, liksom i de flesta större ordböcker."

... which means that IPA is used.


(I quoted myself)

I don't see that it actually includes any translation of the words into another language (=German)? At my level (=A1?) I doubt I would get along with a Swedish-only dictionary.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Team Nordic [study and support group]

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:37 pm

tiia wrote:I don't see that it actually includes any translation of the words into another language (=German)? At my level (=A1?) I doubt I would get along with a Swedish-only dictionary.


Oops! You're probably right. I have to check the copy at the library.
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Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

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