Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:16 pm

jmar257 wrote:Question for those of you who have used French in Action: is just watching the show portion of the course worthwhile for someone who is a rough B1? I can read novels on Kindle (i.e., with vocab lookup) but my comprehension of regular speed podcasts/shows (vs. InnerFrench, for example) is not that great and I just remembered FIA is a thing and could be beneficial here and easier to get through than struggling through real TV for a bit. I'll probably give it a shot anyway but wanted to see if anyone here had anything to add about using that prior to moving on to native TV content.

Yes, I think FIA can provide a helpful step up to real TV, especially the conversations outside of the classroom.
The proceedings can be a bit slow, so you might want to peek at a few video cartoons on line. On this forum there is a short list of them, courtesy of Reineke, but for the life of me I can't find it. But I know that Tintin is on that list and on Youtube as well. Here is one episode of several https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NlFNp ... CeD5mzzs_N, and another on Youtube is a science-fiction show Valerian et Laureline, courtesy of rdearman. This is a compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiBAubZ2R_g. (for whatever reason I'm not getting the url to work correcly :? , so those are the raw addresses.) Sorry about that, and also sorry if you already knew about these cartoon shows.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:15 pm

jmar257 wrote:Question for those of you who have used French in Action: is just watching the show portion of the course worthwhile for someone who is a rough B1? I can read novels on Kindle (i.e., with vocab lookup) but my comprehension of regular speed podcasts/shows (vs. InnerFrench, for example) is not that great and I just remembered FIA is a thing and could be beneficial here and easier to get through than struggling through real TV for a bit. I'll probably give it a shot anyway but wanted to see if anyone here had anything to add about using that prior to moving on to native TV content.


I have used FIA on and off, but never completed it. I generally advocate for using the entire FIA course with all of its components as that's how it was designed for the most comprehensive learning purposes. It's a bit like iguanamon's multi-track learning approach in that all components weigh in like a kind of synergy and act together to enhance one's learning. However, given what you describe, I'd recommend watching the show for the purpose you describe. I think it would work quite well for you.

On another note, using something like Yabla might work wonders for you. Here's a link to a recent promotion https://french.yabla.com/special_offer.php?promo=blackfriday&a=2668&utm_source=Yabla+French+ExSubscribers&utm_campaign=37d8082f77-FinalCyMonFrXs&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2b27bde0c6-37d8082f77-31381397 which might interest you. The videos are graded according to difficulty and there are thousands of them. They are generally short clips of a few minutes. You can turn English subtitles on and off as well as French subtitles on and off. There are games built into the video, you can slow the audio, you can hover over words for definitions and so on. It's probably right up your alley. I sound like I'm selling it, but I'm not. I'm not affiliated with FIA nor Yabla. I just like them both and they both have strong points. There are alternatives to Yabla if it doesn't interest you, but the concept I think is ideal given what you describe. Still FIA videos would suit as well.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:18 pm

Arnaud wrote:Afaik, it's a new version: you can read the introduction in pdf and see the list of the lessons. They are different from the previous edition.


This is definitely a completely new version. At the moment it seems it is only available in French (I was hoping for a Dutch base, I know I'm getting a little greedy), but interesting all the same. I think I'll purchase it at some point even though I don't need to, just to go through it for fun :o Yes I might be a little odd, but who isn't here, right? ;)
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:52 pm

Having been through the entire FIA I have mixed views. I am, like you, a B1 also at this point.

Just sitting back and watching the videos could be worthwhile but relevant to time spent elsewhere is the question.

I think that Alice Ayel is excellent for numerous reasons. She has a very inexpensive firewall that once you pay it you can find lots more stuff. She has a beginners and an intermediate level of material. Since I don't have confidence she is totally excellent for me in giving me confidence.
https://www.youtube.com/user/aliceayel

Francais Authentique is also good:
https://www.youtube.com/user/francaisauthentique/videos

Francais avec Pierre is very worthwhile:
https://www.youtube.com/user/francaisauthentique/videos

Comme une Francaise also very worthwhile:
https://www.youtube.com/c/Commeunefrancaise/videos

Home Language is good
https://www.youtube.com/c/HomeLanguage/videos

The thing is that each of the sites above has a large volume of episodes on which to build so you can definitely pick and choose what you need specifically.

If you need a French language course evaluation, Peter is your man. He can point you to the place where he has evaluated them all. He is very helpful and is pretty much the Consumer Reports of language training.

Hope that helps. If you have questions please do let me know.
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jmar257
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jmar257 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:01 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Yes, I think FIA can provide a helpful step up to real TV, especially the conversations outside of the classroom.
The proceedings can be a bit slow, so you might want to peek at a few video cartoons on line. On this forum there is a short list of them, courtesy of Reineke, but for the life of me I can't find it. But I know that Tintin is on that list and on Youtube as well. Here is one episode of several https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NlFNp ... CeD5mzzs_N, and another on Youtube is a science-fiction show Valerian et Laureline, courtesy of rdearman. This is a compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiBAubZ2R_g. (for whatever reason I'm not getting the url to work correcly :? , so those are the raw addresses.) Sorry about that, and also sorry if you already knew about these cartoon shows.

Thanks Mork, I'll give those a look tonight.

PeterMollenburg wrote:I have used FIA on and off, but never completed it. I generally advocate for using the entire FIA course with all of its components as that's how it was designed for the most comprehensive learning purposes. It's a bit like iguanamon's multi-track learning approach in that all components weigh in like a kind of synergy and act together to enhance one's learning. However, given what you describe, I'd recommend watching the show for the purpose you describe. I think it would work quite well for you.

Thanks Peter. When I did some research on FIA to refresh my memory I saw a lot of people saying it was similar to FSI (better? the reviews were glowing on HTLAL) but I'm going through that now so I don't want to dive into another course. I have the opposite problem as you...once I do a couple courses I get ADD and want to go through native material (and don't mind the struggle generally, but that's easier reading on Kindle vs trying to watch TV). I'll give Yabla a look tonight as well to see what I think. I know part of my problem is a vocabulary issue that could be/will be ameliorated by extensive reading, but I didn't want to put off TV as late as I did with Spanish and think FIA (and these other resources) may be a good way to bridge the gap for now.

Appreciate the recommendations!

Edit: Thanks Carmody, you posted while I was composing this so I missed it at first. But I'll give those a shot as well...I've started watching more YouTube (in English) and have been trying to find good foreign language YouTubers to subscribe to.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:40 am

jmar257 wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I have used FIA on and off, but never completed it. I generally advocate for using the entire FIA course with all of its components as that's how it was designed for the most comprehensive learning purposes. It's a bit like iguanamon's multi-track learning approach in that all components weigh in like a kind of synergy and act together to enhance one's learning. However, given what you describe, I'd recommend watching the show for the purpose you describe. I think it would work quite well for you.

Thanks Peter. When I did some research on FIA to refresh my memory I saw a lot of people saying it was similar to FSI (better? the reviews were glowing on HTLAL) but I'm going through that now so I don't want to dive into another course.....


While other people may see similarities. I don't see that much in common between these two courses. I have completed about a quarter of the FSI French Basic course as well. To me, FSI is dry drills, and not much more. Mind you dry drills can be extremely useful, so although dry, yes, if you can tolerate them, they can be very good for training one's language use.

FIA has some drills, granted, but video, audio of various kinds, grammar explanations in detail, free writing. Well I can't think of all the activities, but to me, very different. I found FIA (as well as Destinos for Spanish) the most comprehensive beginner courses out there. And by comprehensive I mean not only drawing on many components - video, audio, written exercises, grammar etc, but also a lot of all that. Were I to choose one series of courses in French, I'd use all the editions and levels of Assimil, simply because it's what I enjoy, but FIA is a sentimental favourite of mine. In Spanish, I'd simply go straight for Destinos, I think it even trumps FIA to a certain extent. I think it's all the conjugation tables etc that can be a little dry in FIA, but they have their place. As iguanamon has often said though the DLI (and I think it's safe to include FSI in this) do the drilling very well, simply as there's lots of it. Assimil doesn't, hence whey I prefer to have several editions/levels and do them several times if possible or if I can stomach it. FIA has this flaw as well at times I felt (not quite enough drills at times.

While Carmody may be right to a certain extent, unfortunately I'm not that great of a critic on the more advanced French courses. I hope that changes some day (after having my way through a few - not every one of them!)

jmar257 wrote:Appreciate the recommendations!


You're welcome!
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jackb
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jackb » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:59 pm

...but my comprehension of regular speed podcasts/shows (vs. InnerFrench, for example) is not that great...


We sound to be at about the same level. I was having a lot of trouble listening to non-learning podcasts and thought it was because of a lack of vocabulary. After a few months of working on some things, it seems that I was wrong (at least partially). My problem was that I was hearing words I knew in print, but not spoken. **

It's the old 'jeetyet' problem for English learners. A B1 learner of English might think it's a word they don't know, but in fact, it's 4 words they know (did you eat yet) but were unaware of how actual English speakers (Americans in this case) talk.

My other issue has been knowing and recognizing all of the words, but being too slow in processing to keep up. Kind of an avalanche of words.

I think listening has a tendency to get the blanket advice of 'just listen more', when more specific advice would be helpful. It's been frustrating for me.

**Not that this is your problem, just giving you more to think about.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:24 pm

jackb wrote:
I think listening has a tendency to get the blanket advice of 'just listen more', when more specific advice would be helpful. It's been frustrating for me.
Dictation/transcribing, and shadowing are supposed to be good for this.

I found YouTube videos helpful, you can slow them down, rewind with a keystroke (arrows), and sometimes get a hint from machine generated subtitles.
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:16 am

Arte.tv have a Christmas concert: Le choeur d'enfants Sotto Voce chante Noël
Sous la nef du Grand Palais, les soixante lutins chanteurs de Sotto Voce et leur chef Scott Alan Prouty font swinguer comme jamais le répertoire de Noël, savant comme populaire, avec un bonheur communicatif.

Le chœur Sotto Voce rassemble soixante enfants et adolescents de 10 à 18 ans qui partagent une même passion pour le chant, dans tous les répertoires : classique, jazz, comédie musicale américaine ou chanson française. En résidence au Châtelet, Sotto Voce se produit tous les ans sur la grande scène du théâtre parisien. En 2017, momentanément transportés sous la nef du Grand Palais pour cause de travaux dans la maison mère, les soixante lutins du chœur et leur chef Scott Alan Prouty ont fait swinguer comme jamais le répertoire de Noël, savant comme populaire, avec un bonheur communicatif.
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jackb
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jackb » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:38 pm

Dictation/transcribing, and shadowing are supposed to be good for this.


These techniques don't address the problem if you can't parse the words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALmloz9r5bo

Finding the ou in this video is the problem I'm working on. Shadowing this sentence doesn't work because I can't shadow a word that I don't 'hear'. In this case, it's more a realization that it's stuck to the end of planifié.

I've been doing something similar with some French Voices podcasts (not videos) and free transcripts. The host speaks kind of slow sometimes, but her guests are from all over the world and speak like regular people.

It's a tedious process, but very helpful.
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