Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

An area with study groups for various languages. Group members help each other, share resources and experience. Study groups are permanent but the members rotate and change.
Speakeasy
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2137
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Canada (Montréal region)
Languages: English (N), French (C2). Studying: Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Dutch, Polish, and Russian; all with widely varying degrees of application, enthusiasm, and success.
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Speakeasy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:I would suggest you give FSI a try and see what happens. And you don't have to commit yourself to reciting the whole series…
lusan wrote: I got a copy of the fsi Basic course and the audio. … I found it very intense. It requires focus and concentrations. Light in grammar and listening comprehension but heavy on drills...
A couple of quick comments:

(1) The FSI Basic courses of the 1960’s used the audio-lingual method of language instruction. One of the features of this approach to teaching was that explanations of grammar were kept to a minimum and, in place of a more in-depth presentation of the underlying structural aspects of the target language as illustrated in the dialogues, students were required to work through massive amounts of sentence-pattern drills the repetition of which was meant to develop a sense of the L2's structure. The skeletal notes on grammar were often placed at the end of a lesson units as reinforcement of the aural/oral practice sessions. Students seeking greater clarity on specific points of grammar should consult a basic grammar of the target language.

(2) The listening comprehension section of the FSI Basic courses is often placed at the end of the dialogues where the dialogue itself is presented at a normal conversational speed.

(3) You might be interested in playing around with an “updated” version of the FSI French Basic course. Here are the LINKS to the discussion thread and to the creator’s website. The materials themselves are available via Amazon Audible only …

FSI Basic Courses “Updated” Dr. Brians Languages - LLORG – July 2017
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6400

Dr. Brians Languages
http://www.drbrianslanguages.com/index.html
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lusan
Orange Belt
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Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Languages: Spanish(Native), English, Polish(Intermediate), French(learning)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby lusan » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:53 pm

Speakeasy wrote:
MorkTheFiddle wrote:I would suggest you give FSI a try and see what happens. And you don't have to commit yourself to reciting the whole series…
lusan wrote: I got a copy of the fsi Basic course and the audio. … I found it very intense. It requires focus and concentrations. Light in grammar and listening comprehension but heavy on drills...
A couple of quick comments:

(1) The FSI Basic courses of the 1960’s used the audio-lingual method of language instruction. One of the features of this approach to teaching was that explanations of grammar were kept to a minimum and, in place of a more in-depth presentation of the underlying structural aspects of the target language as illustrated in the dialogues, students were required to work through massive amounts of sentence-pattern drills the repetition of which was meant to develop a sense of the L2's structure. The skeletal notes on grammar were often placed at the end of a lesson units as reinforcement of the aural/oral practice sessions. Students seeking greater clarity on specific points of grammar should consult a basic grammar of the target language.

(2) The listening comprehension section of the FSI Basic courses is often placed at the end of the dialogues where the dialogue itself is presented at a normal conversational speed.

(3) You might be interested in playing around with an “updated” version of the FSI French Basic course. Here are the LINKS to the discussion thread and to the creator’s website. The materials themselves are available via Amazon Audible only …

FSI Basic Courses “Updated” Dr. Brians Languages - LLORG – July 2017
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6400

Dr. Brians Languages
http://www.drbrianslanguages.com/index.html


Thanks for the advice. To keep track of my French studies, I started a journal today. I have high hopes to reach fluency by next year end.
Fluency, for me, means to speak without significant hesitations.
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Cavesa
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Cavesa » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:19 pm

lusan wrote:Any suggestion for production in French?

Where am I? After 9 months of study, I estimated that I probably reached the following levels in the skill set:

Reading: B1 - No problem reading the news, and blogs
Listening: B1 - 60-80 % understanding of TED talks in French without subtitles.
Writing: A2 - I can write notes and email in proper french if I want to. But I have no need.
Speaking: Terrible. Specially because Polish is interfering with French. I joined a French group and I am having a tough time.

Done:
Assimil with Ease - First wave
Hugo French in 3 months
501 French verbs - all into Anki
All verb conjugations

Currently working on:
Les 500 Exercices de Phonetiques
French demystified
Listening: TED talks and RFI -Journal en francais facile
Reading a set of Lectures Progressives FLE - From A2 to B1

However, I need to work on speaking production. I do not want to take italki lessons because I think it is premature. I would love a systematic production method. Is French FSI a path forward? Something else? I feel that I need to do a bunch of drills. Suggestions appreciated.


I think you might be a bit too hard on yourself, your achievements after just 9 months are wonderful! But I'd agree that just italki lessons may not be the best course of action. Most people struggling with production are actually struggling because they haven't learn their grammar,vocabulary, or pronunciation well enough. The usual advice "just talk and talk, it's all about practice" can be counterproductive, there are tons of people with fossilised mistakes, who waste tons of money on tutoring but actually don't bother to really learn the stuff (and many tutors are happy to just do the conversation practice with them, and the longer the people struggle, the longer they pay).

It looks like your grammar and vocab are going on fine. Your Phonetique book might actually be the key part here, to help you master the third pillar and, no less importantly, help you build more confidence. When you know your pronunciation and grammar and vocab are fine, you don't need to be that stressed out while speaking. Phonetique Progressive is a very good set of books covering everything.

It may look weird, but I'd recommend more and more input. It helps you train the most important part of production, which is thinking in French.

When all this stuff is covered sufficiently, you will either struggle much less with production right away, or it will be only about getting more practice.

You are great, don't worry so much. Everything will fall into place eventually.
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lusan
Orange Belt
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:25 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Languages: Spanish(Native), English, Polish(Intermediate), French(learning)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby lusan » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:32 pm

Cavesa wrote:
I think you might be a bit too hard on yourself, your achievements after just 9 months are wonderful! But I'd agree that just italki lessons may not be the best course of action. Most people struggling with production are actually struggling because they haven't learn their grammar,vocabulary, or pronunciation well enough. The usual advice "just talk and talk, it's all about practice" can be counterproductive, there are tons of people with fossilised mistakes, who waste tons of money on tutoring but actually don't bother to really learn the stuff (and many tutors are happy to just do the conversation practice with them, and the longer the people struggle, the longer they pay).


Totally agree. I feel that I lack the vocabulary to say what I want to say. I decided not to do italki until the end of FSI. My original intent for French was reading and listening. But then, I decided to include speaking which made the task somewhat different. Input-wise I read about 1 hr a day and I listen about the same. I just need to finish with some beginner books to jump into normal reading-I assume within 3 months. Listening will take probably longer. Anyway, I am striving for no later than next year end for reaching a B2 listening level. Speaking level will be whatever FSI French Basic deliver.

Cavesa wrote:It may look weird, but I'd recommend more and more input. It helps you train the most important part of production, which is thinking in French.

When all this stuff is covered sufficiently, you will either struggle much less with production right away, or it will be only about getting more practice.

You are great, don't worry so much. Everything will fall into place eventually.


I totally agree.

Last night I was listening a podcast A2/B1 level. I was pleased that I understood 90 % on first heard. I wonder how much I will understand within a year. I will be patient. Thanks for the advise.
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Saim
Green Belt
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Location: Poznań
Languages: N: English (AU)
C2: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish
C1: Polish
B2: Urdu, Hungarian
~B1-A2 (some rusty): Hebrew, Punjabi, Galician, Russian, Portuguese, Italian, Asturian, Occitan, Dutch, French
~A2/1: Slovene, Ukrainian, Esperanto, Turkish, Basque, Arabic
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Saim » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:08 pm

Deinonysus wrote:
DaveAgain wrote:"Leu" is an old form of loup (wolf). The double leu is allegedly an error that caught on:

My favorite error that caught on (or series of errors) is:
Unicorne.
Une icorne ?
Ouais, l'icorne.
Une licorne ?
Ben, pourquoi pas ?


Cool! According to the Catalan dictionary Alcover Moll this exists in other Romance languages, although I don't know if I've ever heard it in Catalan itself:

ALICORN m.
|1. Unicorn
Etim.: del llatí ūnicŏrnis, ‘que té una sola banya’. El canvi de l'inicial ūni- en ali- (cat. alicorn, it. alicorno, port. alicornio, fr. ‘licorne) s'és produït per substitució de l'art. aràbic al- a l'element un- que era aparentment un article indeterminat (cfr. Baist, en Rom. Forsch. i, 445).
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Thinh_le2306
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:05 pm
Languages: Vietnamese (native)
English (C1 level - 7.0 IELTS)
French (beginner)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Thinh_le2306 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:44 pm

Bonsoir tout le monde,

C'esr moi, Thinh de Vietnam. Il est minuit ici.
Je retourne apres trois semaines. J'èspère que je pourrai passer l' exame DEFL A1.
J'écris ces phrases sans dictionaire ou Google Tranduct
Je ne sais pas si ces phrases sont exacte.
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Deinonysus
Blue Belt
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:06 pm
Location: Boston
Languages:  
• Native: English
• Advanced: French,
   German
• Intermediate:
   Esperanto
• Beginner: Icelandic,
   Italian, Hebrew,
   Japanese, Spanish,
   Danish, Indonesian
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7581
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:25 pm

I heard an awful bilingual joke today and had to share.

What do they call J. Lo in France?

"I have the water."
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Diné Bizaad
: 3 / 21 Conversational Navajo Workbook
: 2 / 32 Rosetta Stone Navajo

Bluepaint
Brown Belt
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:41 pm
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Bluepaint » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:31 pm

Deinonysus wrote:I heard an awful bilingual joke today and had to share.

What do they call J. Lo in France?

"I have the water."


:( Is it abuse of my admin position to ban for this?

:lol: Joking, of course!
4 x

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Voxel
Yellow Belt
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:49 am
Location: France
Languages: French (N), English (I), Russian (?), Japanese (?)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Voxel » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:25 pm

Deinonysus wrote:I heard an awful bilingual joke today and had to share.

What do they call J. Lo in France?

"I have the water."

Jerry! :D
1 x

Thinh_le2306
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:05 pm
Languages: Vietnamese (native)
English (C1 level - 7.0 IELTS)
French (beginner)
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Thinh_le2306 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:35 am

Voxel wrote:
Deinonysus wrote:I heard an awful bilingual joke today and had to share.

What do they call J. Lo in France?

"I have the water."

Jerry! :D

I have rice:))
2 x


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