Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:40 am

jmar257 wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I have used FIA on and off, but never completed it. I generally advocate for using the entire FIA course with all of its components as that's how it was designed for the most comprehensive learning purposes. It's a bit like iguanamon's multi-track learning approach in that all components weigh in like a kind of synergy and act together to enhance one's learning. However, given what you describe, I'd recommend watching the show for the purpose you describe. I think it would work quite well for you.

Thanks Peter. When I did some research on FIA to refresh my memory I saw a lot of people saying it was similar to FSI (better? the reviews were glowing on HTLAL) but I'm going through that now so I don't want to dive into another course.....


While other people may see similarities. I don't see that much in common between these two courses. I have completed about a quarter of the FSI French Basic course as well. To me, FSI is dry drills, and not much more. Mind you dry drills can be extremely useful, so although dry, yes, if you can tolerate them, they can be very good for training one's language use.

FIA has some drills, granted, but video, audio of various kinds, grammar explanations in detail, free writing. Well I can't think of all the activities, but to me, very different. I found FIA (as well as Destinos for Spanish) the most comprehensive beginner courses out there. And by comprehensive I mean not only drawing on many components - video, audio, written exercises, grammar etc, but also a lot of all that. Were I to choose one series of courses in French, I'd use all the editions and levels of Assimil, simply because it's what I enjoy, but FIA is a sentimental favourite of mine. In Spanish, I'd simply go straight for Destinos, I think it even trumps FIA to a certain extent. I think it's all the conjugation tables etc that can be a little dry in FIA, but they have their place. As iguanamon has often said though the DLI (and I think it's safe to include FSI in this) do the drilling very well, simply as there's lots of it. Assimil doesn't, hence whey I prefer to have several editions/levels and do them several times if possible or if I can stomach it. FIA has this flaw as well at times I felt (not quite enough drills at times.

While Carmody may be right to a certain extent, unfortunately I'm not that great of a critic on the more advanced French courses. I hope that changes some day (after having my way through a few - not every one of them!)

jmar257 wrote:Appreciate the recommendations!


You're welcome!
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jackb
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jackb » Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:59 pm

...but my comprehension of regular speed podcasts/shows (vs. InnerFrench, for example) is not that great...


We sound to be at about the same level. I was having a lot of trouble listening to non-learning podcasts and thought it was because of a lack of vocabulary. After a few months of working on some things, it seems that I was wrong (at least partially). My problem was that I was hearing words I knew in print, but not spoken. **

It's the old 'jeetyet' problem for English learners. A B1 learner of English might think it's a word they don't know, but in fact, it's 4 words they know (did you eat yet) but were unaware of how actual English speakers (Americans in this case) talk.

My other issue has been knowing and recognizing all of the words, but being too slow in processing to keep up. Kind of an avalanche of words.

I think listening has a tendency to get the blanket advice of 'just listen more', when more specific advice would be helpful. It's been frustrating for me.

**Not that this is your problem, just giving you more to think about.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:24 pm

jackb wrote:
I think listening has a tendency to get the blanket advice of 'just listen more', when more specific advice would be helpful. It's been frustrating for me.
Dictation/transcribing, and shadowing are supposed to be good for this.

I found YouTube videos helpful, you can slow them down, rewind with a keystroke (arrows), and sometimes get a hint from machine generated subtitles.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:16 am

Arte.tv have a Christmas concert: Le choeur d'enfants Sotto Voce chante Noël
Sous la nef du Grand Palais, les soixante lutins chanteurs de Sotto Voce et leur chef Scott Alan Prouty font swinguer comme jamais le répertoire de Noël, savant comme populaire, avec un bonheur communicatif.

Le chœur Sotto Voce rassemble soixante enfants et adolescents de 10 à 18 ans qui partagent une même passion pour le chant, dans tous les répertoires : classique, jazz, comédie musicale américaine ou chanson française. En résidence au Châtelet, Sotto Voce se produit tous les ans sur la grande scène du théâtre parisien. En 2017, momentanément transportés sous la nef du Grand Palais pour cause de travaux dans la maison mère, les soixante lutins du chœur et leur chef Scott Alan Prouty ont fait swinguer comme jamais le répertoire de Noël, savant comme populaire, avec un bonheur communicatif.
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jackb
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jackb » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:38 pm

Dictation/transcribing, and shadowing are supposed to be good for this.


These techniques don't address the problem if you can't parse the words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALmloz9r5bo

Finding the ou in this video is the problem I'm working on. Shadowing this sentence doesn't work because I can't shadow a word that I don't 'hear'. In this case, it's more a realization that it's stuck to the end of planifié.

I've been doing something similar with some French Voices podcasts (not videos) and free transcripts. The host speaks kind of slow sometimes, but her guests are from all over the world and speak like regular people.

It's a tedious process, but very helpful.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby DaveAgain » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:07 pm

jackb wrote:
Dictation/transcribing, and shadowing are supposed to be good for this.


These techniques don't address the problem if you can't parse the words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALmloz9r5bo

Finding the ou in this video is the problem I'm working on. Shadowing this sentence doesn't work because I can't shadow a word that I don't 'hear'. In this case, it's more a realization that it's stuck to the end of planifié.

I've been doing something similar with some French Voices podcasts (not videos) and free transcripts. The host speaks kind of slow sometimes, but her guests are from all over the world and speak like regular people.

It's a tedious process, but very helpful.
The idea as I understand it is to force yourself to listen closely, to overcome your automatic 'tuning out' of non-English sounds.

Drawing on the right side of the brain presents a similar technique for drawing, you concentrate on the details rather than the whole.
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jmar257
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby jmar257 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:35 pm

jackb wrote:
...but my comprehension of regular speed podcasts/shows (vs. InnerFrench, for example) is not that great...


We sound to be at about the same level. I was having a lot of trouble listening to non-learning podcasts and thought it was because of a lack of vocabulary. After a few months of working on some things, it seems that I was wrong (at least partially). My problem was that I was hearing words I knew in print, but not spoken. *

[...]

My other issue has been knowing and recognizing all of the words, but being too slow in processing to keep up. Kind of an avalanche of words.

I think listening has a tendency to get the blanket advice of 'just listen more', when more specific advice would be helpful. It's been frustrating for me.


(Looking back and comparing to my experience with Spanish) There's definitely a vocabulary aspect for me, but I do know of the problem you're talking about as well (which is also part of my issue). Obviously listening helped (and is necessary), but another thing that helped me there with Spanish was also extensive reading and becoming a quicker reader. Having certain words/phrases/patterns start getting engrained from seeing them a bunch in reading makes parsing them when hearing them easier. That said once the language stops being as clearly related to the written version it gets harder (i.e., I have trouble with some Castilian dialects and Rioplatense ones) which I think plays into French more than it did Spanish for me (my focus was/is on Mexican Spanish).

I do think you're right that "just listen more" isn't always the best advice...I do think doing a more regimented form of practice (dealing with transcriptions, slowing audio down, etc.) helps as well as the blanket advice of "just read more" lol. At least based on my experience.
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Carmody
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Carmody » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:05 pm

Betcha never heard of this French resource!
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rdearman
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby rdearman » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:03 am

Carmody wrote:Betcha never heard of this French resource!

Actually I had. :D It was on a podcast I listen to. :lol:
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Caromarlyse
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Re: Le groupe français 2016 - 2019 Les Voyageurs

Postby Caromarlyse » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:22 pm

This week's dossier spécial in L'Express is on "Être français" - there are several articles on the topic which intermediate/advanced language learners may find of interest (I'm going to sit down and read them at least!). They're behind a paywall (I'm already subscribed), but it seems as though they are promoting special holiday offers, making subscription cheaper at the moment.
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