Le groupe français 2016 - 2023 Les Voyageurs

[Carmody]

Well I have Windows 7 and I believe some people think the following combo works:
http://dry.sailingissues.com/us-international-keyboard-layout.html
It doesn't work for me.

However, I sincerely believe, as has been my experience, that you are absolutely correct and they are wrong.

Please note, Tom, that my correspondence with a French literature teacher in France has been made possible thanks to your kind and patient guidance on the topic of installing and using the US-Intl keyboard.

Indebted to you as always.........

[tomgosse]

Well I have Windows 7 and I believe some people think the following combo works:
http://dry.sailingissues.com/us-international-keyboard-layout.html
It doesn't work for me.

However, I sincerely believe, as has been my experience, that you are absolutely correct and they are wrong.

Please note, Tom, that my correspondence with a French literature teacher in France has been made possible thanks to your kind and patient guidance on the topic of installing and using the US-Intl keyboard.

Indebted to you as always.........

That keyboard is for the Linux operating system. Like you, I use Windows and the alt-gr K combo does not work for me either. I'm happy to hear that your French is going well.

All the best,
Tom

[DaveBee]

Nice documentary on Mary Queen of Scots, from the Secrets d'histoire series.

[PeterMollenburg]

Subject: Would anyone care to comment on the usage of œ in the French language?

I see in Wikipedia the following:

It is most prominent in the words mœurs (“mores”), cœur (“heart”), sœur (“sister”), œuf (“egg”), bœuf (“beef”, "steer"), œuvre (“work”) and œil (“eye”), in which the digraph œu, like eu, represents the sound [œ] (in other cases, like plurals œufs (“eggs”) and bœufs (“steers”)

1-Is it mandatory to type it that way?
2-Am not sure how to type it with my US-Intl keyboard.

Thank you.

I was wanting to comment on the bit I have bolded above. In my experience, in most cases, or at least many cases, 'eu' does not represent the sound [œ], but [ø].

There is a difference but sometimes admittedly, it's subtle (like a combination of the two sounds, ie something in between the two). Or, depending on the region one is from or the manner in which one speaks I'd imagine can depend on whether one pronounces the sound more openly or closed.

In standard Parisian French 'œuf' is [œf], which is a more open sound than the plural 'œufs', which is [ø], consequently a more closed sound. The open sound [œ] is usually used in closed syllables (œuf ends in the consonant [f] sound), and the closed sound [ø] in open syllables (œufs does not end in a consonant sound).

An example of variation is the word 'heureux'. In my Oxford Hachette dictionary it is [œʀø], while in my Petit Robert and Collins Robert it is [øʀø]. Possibly this depends on whether one ends the first syllable with a distinct [ʀ], consequently changing the initial syllable between open and closed (closed being with the [ʀ] sound pronounced). On analysis, I prefer [øʀø], since from my learning, I understand that French ought to usually divide syllables in a way that has them ending in vowel sounds wherever possible. However, what is taught in books is not always the reality in everyday speech, but still I go with that choice, as it would seem most logical to me.

I've only raised this as I believe the quote from the Wikipedia article is a little 'rough' in it's description of [œ] being represented by 'œu' in writing or 'eu'. In fact, for the most part, I think I simply do not agree with this, and my reason is in the detail above. Just being a stickler

[aravinda]

Subject: Would anyone care to comment on the usage of œ in the French language?

I see in Wikipedia the following:

It is most prominent in the words mœurs (“mores”), cœur (“heart”), sœur (“sister”), œuf (“egg”), bœuf (“beef”, "steer"), œuvre (“work”) and œil (“eye”), in which the digraph œu, like eu, represents the sound [œ] (in other cases, like plurals œufs (“eggs”) and bœufs (“steers”)

1-Is it mandatory to type it that way?
2-Am not sure how to type it with my US-Intl keyboard.

Thank you.

I was wanting to comment on the bit I have bolded above. In my experience, in most cases, or at least many cases, 'eu' does not represent the sound [œ], but [ø]...

Too lazy to type. This is from Phonétique progressive du français (Niveau intermédiaire):

[PeterMollenburg]

Subject: Would anyone care to comment on the usage of œ in the French language?

I see in Wikipedia the following:

It is most prominent in the words mœurs (“mores”), cœur (“heart”), sœur (“sister”), œuf (“egg”), bœuf (“beef”, "steer"), œuvre (“work”) and œil (“eye”), in which the digraph œu, like eu, represents the sound [œ] (in other cases, like plurals œufs (“eggs”) and bœufs (“steers”)

1-Is it mandatory to type it that way?
2-Am not sure how to type it with my US-Intl keyboard.

Thank you.

I was wanting to comment on the bit I have bolded above. In my experience, in most cases, or at least many cases, 'eu' does not represent the sound [œ], but [ø]...

Too lazy to type. This is from Phonétique progressive du français (Niveau intermédiaire):

Ah, this makes sense. Thanks aravinda. I was on the right track but not entirely correct myself. It appears I was correct about [œ] belonging to closed syllables, but [ø] can apparently belong to both (closed and open), and now that I see the examples provided, that makes sense. Oh, and 'eu' can also be [œ] in sound in some circumstances. Half right, half wrong. The Wikipedia article needs a little more detail I believe.

cheers!

[Bluepaint]

Nice documentary on Mary Queen of Scots, from the Secrets d'histoire series.

Is this the kind of documentary that's going to have me shouting "Lies! Falsehoods! Bias!"?

[DaveBee]

Nice documentary on Mary Queen of Scots, from the Secrets d'histoire series.

Is this the kind of documentary that's going to have me shouting "Lies! Falsehoods! Bias!"?

Possibly biased against Mary. There was no mention of any successes on her part; she put down a rebellion in Scotland, which wasn't mentioned. But it's a one hour doccy, not a court case.

I liked it.

[Carmody]

Re: the usage of œ

I gather from the comments above that œ only needs to be used in formal documents. The point is I see it in the book (Le Sud by Yves Berger) I am reading and so assume that usage of œ is like the passé simple.

Is that correct? That œ would be too formal for everyday correspondence with someone?

[tastyonions]

If you need your writing to be 100% correct or if typing it is no bother, then use the ligature. Not a question of "formality," imo.